Saturday, January 15, 2011

Batgirl #17

Review: This issue gets started with Damian Wayne(Robin)being his regular, annoying, creepy little self to Alfred. Upon Alfred leaving him alone, Damian makes a journal entry to his red casebook(HA!)about Alfred's skills as a butler(HA!!). Meanwhile, Stephanie Brown(Batgirl)races out of her home to look into a case Batman had set up for her. A bit later, Damian(as Robin)accosts a school crossing guard for telling the children he was safeguarding to move faster. Damian finds that suspicious, and is annoyed when Batgirl swings over to question the crossing guard herself. It seems the mission Batman assigned Steph was to find out who was kidnapping children from Gotham's middle class. Damian knows nothing about Steph's mission, and chalks it up to all of the other missions he was given by Batman. Now aware of Steph's mission, Damian decides to tag along, and the two head over to the school and watch as a class of children are put on a bus for a field trip to a museum. The two follow and Steph has Damian dress as a child to do some undercover work. While Steph manages to make her way into the museum's security room, Damian(or “Bruce” as he tells one of the children his name is)has to suffer through acting like a normal 10 year old, something he is painfully unequipped to do. After surveying the cameras, Steph spots the school bus driver bound and gagged in the museum and alerts Damian to this. By this time, the kidnappers have taken the children back onto the bus and are ferrying them to their safehouse to be held for ransom. Damian quickly switches back to his Robin clothes and in a matter of minutes, him and Steph have caught up to the bus. The two heroes manage to gain access to the bus, and defeat the kidnappers in short order. With the kidnappers caught, and the children safe, Steph offers to help Damian learn a few things he was lacking in. To that extent, later on that night, Steph takes Damian to an amusement park and pulls him into a bounce house, actually getting a smile out of the little hellspawn and ending this issue.

Thoughts: Ahhhh, Bryan Q. Miller... Why do you do these things to me? You know, it couldn't have been more then a year ago when Damian Wayne would have easily, EASILY have been counted among my most despised characters. I mean he was just an unlikable, nasty, all around sucky character. However, after Damian had been written almost exclusively by Grant Morrison from his creation, last year saw many other writers use Damian, most notably Fabian Nicieza, Paul Dini, JT Krul and of course, Bryan Miller. These writers were able to do what Morrison either couldn't or wouldn't do, they began to fill out Damian's character. He ISN'T just the little ball of hate that Morrison had been writing him as, there actually was more to him. And let me tell you, nobody has done more to help with Damian's development then Miller has. I mean, I actually felt for Damian after reading this issue. Sure, he was still an obnoxious little punk here, but there were so many great little character development moments here as well... His annoyance that Batman had given Batgirl the kidnapping case over him, using the name “Bruce” when asked by the girl in the museum his name(which was AWESOME because it shows how much Damian WANTS to be his father), being unable to blend in and act like a normal 10 year old, and the ending with the bounce house. I mean god help me, but if there was a Robin series put out written by anybody BUT Grant Morrison, I'd be one of the first people in line to buy it. That's how drastically my feelings towards Damian have changed. Now onto the story of this comic. It was a pretty basic, one and done tale that told a simple story. Kidnappers try to abduct children, Damian and Steph(who aren't exactly best of friends)have to work together to foil the villains, and in the end Steph gains some measure of sympathy for the type of life Damian has lived. Was it technically perfect? No, not really, the stuff with the school crossing guard really didn't go anywhere, but did I enjoy it more than any other comic I've read so far this month? Without a doubt. And with that in mind, figuring out what to score this comic really wasn't that difficult...

Score: 10 out of 10. Yeah! The first perfect score of 2011!Yep, I'm a Damian fan now. Deal with it.

97 comments:

  1. Awesome score, I didn't read it yet but I will tomorrow after the R&R, I was working the last two days. The fact you're a Damian fan now doesn't surprise me, the lil bastard grew on me as well lately due to being written so well like ya said by Krul, Miller and Nicieza. And Batgirl's perfect score lives on!!!!

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  2. Cool. I'll be really interested to see what you give this comic, JT... I feel I gave it too generous a score, and that the story wasn't really "perfect" but I enjoyed the interaction between Steph and Damian so much I couldn't help it. Once you read it there's plenty we can talk about.

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  3. Awesome, I'll probably give it a half assed review since I gotta review that and six other comic as well as format that script... depends on how much energy I had after the last two days of work kicked my ass.

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  4. DAMN! That sounds like a lot of work! Maybe you should just skip a few of the comics you were gonna do this week and either do 'em at a later date or not do 'em at all. Plus you gotta work on Sunday too, no? Hmm, if I were you I'd STRONGLY consider pushing back your R&R until like Monday or Tuesday, 'cause your days are FULL Thursday-Sun! Last thing you want to do is feel like the R&R post is a chore. I've been there before, and that's always when I'd get burned out with the blogging thing.

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  5. Batgirl is easily my favorite title right now. Top of the must read list when I finally get my books each week (or month....)

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  6. Totally agreed, Mock. Batgirl is easily one of my five favorite monthly comics, and probably one of my two favorite DC books.

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  7. Yeah, I only work four hours tomorrow but I know what ya mean. I'll start on it and see how I feel as it progresses. I'll probably wait and just format that script Monday since I've already made all the changes I felt were needed. We'll see.

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  8. Ah, I thought that script was higher priority than the R&R. I guess I'll find out later on tonight what you chose to include(or not include)in your post.

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  9. You'd think so haha. It's not due til the 30th and I just gotta format it so that'll take an hour, two hours tops? And since I get off at 4 tomorrow I could always finish it then and just send it to them on Monday. I just don't wanna get behind on the R&R and have double the comics next week.

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  10. Eh, so you have plenty of time to get that script finished off. I see you have your R&R up, I'll check it out a bit later to see how our scores matched up.

    Oh, and I REALLY know what you mean about falling behind with the comic reviews... I'll be trying to deal with that problem tomorrow...

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  11. Yeah, outside of Deadpool I think we were pretty even for the most part.

    I like Quick Hits so that's an excellent feature if you ask me, especially if you keep it up. I'd recommend it anyway, even if that's how ya get caught up on Gen Lost.

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  12. Hmm, that might be an excellent way to catch up on the Gen Lost stuff... I as considering a Best of the Rest type post for all of the Gen Losts, but since my Gen Lost pile is like 10 comics(and growing!) that would be a LOOOONG post!

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  13. Damn! Lol yeah, Quick hits would be your best bet in that case. Plus those pop off my computer screen like "Eye-Popping CGI Man." Haha, I love King of The Hill.

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  14. Then it's settled. Once(If I ever!)I read those comics, it'll be in a Quick Hits post. Thanks for the idea, JT.

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  15. My pleasure bud. I'd recommend ya DO read em. But knowing you that could take a while. :P

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  16. One day, JT... One day... But hey, look at it this way, you actually convinced me to pick up and read Spidey again, so hell, that's a HUGE victory right there!

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  17. Did I? Or did Marc REALLY convince you, because I tried to sell ya on it but ya didn't agree til Marc agreed. :P

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  18. Well, I actually didn't decide to give Spidey another shot until after reading YOUR Year End Review post! But if you don't want to take credit, so be it. *shrugs*

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  19. Lmao, I'll take credit. Speaking of which, I just bought Spider-Man Shattered Dimensions a few days ago for 22 bucks. Hopefully I like it. I was thinking, after I beat it, if ya want to play it I'll send it to ya.

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  20. There, I'm glad that's settled now! :D

    Thanks for the offer amigo, but I'm still playing through Borderlands believe it or not! I've completed the game totally with one of the classes and I'm more than halfway through with a second. After that there's two more classes, so I'm hoping that'll hold me until DA:2...

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  21. No problem, and I'm shocked, I figured you were all done with Borderlands. Oh, and what'd ya decide on Mass Effect 2, I don't remember if you ever replied about that.

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  22. Ha, you know how I am with games... I play the HELL out of them, until I'm just INSANELY bored of them. So yeah, I do still have some more work to do in Borderlands. As long as I'm happy with Borderlands, I prob won't get Mass Effect 2. But I'll tell you this, that is one game I'll be keeping my eyes on, and whenever I need a new game, or if its price drops, you can be DAMN sure I'll be buying it.

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  23. Nice, I'm gonna guesstimate you'll end up picking it up around June/July, you should be all tuckered out with DA:II by then and awaiting Arkham City at that point, si?

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  24. Mmmm... That sounds HIGHLY likely. You know me all to well my friend! :D

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  25. Haha, it's a gift and a curse. Mostly a curse :P So, the week of my birthday which is also DA:II week, we start new schedules on that Sunday. I'm hoping for one that will give me a lot of days to play DA:II without ruining iut by havint to go to work, lol.

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  26. Definitely a curse! :D

    Ah, the week of your birthday... I've got to try to remember that. Then again, I KNOW I'll forget by then, so hopefully you'll bring it up towards the end of Feb. Yeah, I hear ya about DA:2! I'm keeping my fingers crossed that I don't have any papers due that week, and the next one, because those would be some half-assed papers! :P

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  27. Lol @ some half-assed papers. Someone call old X, time to make it rain!!!! Lol, also, I love how ya want me to bring up my birthday just so you can say "happy birthday" and that's it. :P

    I'm patiently counting the days til DA:II comes out, I still cant believe it's almost February. Man I'm glad that's a short month.

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  28. "Someone call old X, time to make it rain!!!!"............ No comment. Moving on.

    Sure, what better gift is there than me saying "Happy Birthday"? :D

    I'm just hoping the release date doesn't get pushed back or anything. I HATE when that happens!

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  29. Lmao, it's funny cause it's true!

    Maybe an actual gift, a blog shout out, an add on PSN? :P

    Oh God, don't even SAY that. Now I'll be worried about that, I really hope it doesn't get pushed back. That would suck SO much.

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  30. Once again, no comment... :D

    How about a simple "happy birthday"? :P

    HA!! See, now I've transfered my worries to you! I ALWAYS worry about the games I want getting delayed.

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  31. Haha, denying it just means yes. We've discussed this mon frere.

    Hm... if that's the BEST you can do. :P

    Damn you X-Man!!!! That should be a big week for me, one of my favorite rapper's cd's drops the same day (Lupe Fiasco) as Dragon Age II comes out, and my birthday is that week. Now that you jinxed me, all THREE of those things will get pushed back. :P

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  32. Oh snap, you're right! Um... That means I have to say that's NOT true, right?

    Not only is that the best I can do, it's ALL I'm GONNA do! :D

    Dude, if I just jinxed your BIRTHDAY back a week, I would officially replace Tim Drake as the new Jinx! Plus I think that would make me the devil or something...

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  33. Yep, but then I'll just say it's denial, so either way you're screwed.

    Lmao... I hate you so much X.

    Haha, well let the countdown begin. In a few short weeks we'll know if you're the new Jinx/Anti-Christ. Trying to replace Morrison eh? Hiyoooooooooooo

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  34. Damn you and your word play! There's no getting out of this one, is there?

    HA! Sometimes I hate me too! Man am I a jerk! :D

    HA!!! Dude, did Grant piss in your coffee or something??? You really seem to have it out for him lately! Anyway, we ALL know Dan Didio is the Anti-Christ, it said so on his wiki page.

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  35. Nope, so just admit it buddy. Because ya can't win, you've been Bugs Bunny'd.

    At least you know it X, and admitting it is the first step!

    Lmao... I don't know which was funnier, the coffee thing or the wiki thing, which I recall. And nah, he didn't. He just pissed ON my favorite character and made him Joker-lite.

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  36. ...

    Hey, I'm under no illusions as to what kind of person I am! :D

    HA!!! I knew pissing was involved in some way... Okay, fair enough then. So had Morrison not Jason Todded Jason, would you still be okay-ish with him, or do you think you would have still turned on him anyway. That wiki page of Didio was hilarious... And in retrospect, all true!

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  37. So you admit that Younger X was quite the manwhore eh?

    Haha, because you can't deny being the world's biggest jerk :P

    I'd say I still wouldn't care for him. I mean, even prior to that, the whole shit with that guy in the pig mask and everything. But yeah, the Jason thing just made everything even worse.

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  38. ...

    Wow, the World's Biggest Jerk... That is quite the accomplishment. I have to admit, I'm a bit proud of that! ;-)

    Yeah, that Pyg junk was just AWFUL!!! I hated the story, the art wasn't that good, that was a frigging trainwreck. I can't disagree with you there at all!

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  39. Your silence is quite incriminating, X. You were the Val Venis of college?

    You should be, you're like a mizture of 1998 Rock, 2000 Triple H, 2003 Cena and 2010 Miz.

    God I hated that Pyg guy. Then the whole stuff with Jason's evil lair being a damn RV? HE OWNS KORD INDUSTRIES AND HE TRAVELS IN AN RV?! Get the fudge outta here Morrison!

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  40. ......

    Dude, ANY comparison to the Rock is a HUGE compliment in my eyes, so I'll take that!

    What ever happened to Jason's EVIL Batcave?! :P

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  41. x-man75 said...

    "Why yes JT, I was a super manwhore, I ran through women like Wally West at an Oprah book signing!"

    Speaking of which, on his OFFICIAL facebook that he's not wrestling again. He says he WILL be back, he WILL entertain everyone and he can't wait to do it, but he won't be wrestling anymore.

    It got repossessed and now belongs to the Punisher... Lol.

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  42. What the hell?! I NEVER said that! That is slander my good sir!

    Um, who are you talking about? seriously, is this some sort of weird guessing game or something? Because if it is, I give up! :D

    Well Punisher best watch it, 'cause he was one of the MANY Marvel heroes Bats told to keep out of Gotham!

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  43. Nah, when it's written I believe it's libel and not slander, either way, you said it. :P

    Lol you said any comparison to Rock, so we were talking about The Rock, lol.

    Lmao, Bats told EVERYONE to keep outta Gotham. Like the DCU was just IN Gotham. He's all, you can go to metropolis and eff up Supes crap, but stay....outta....Gotham!

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  44. Sheesh... Mr. Legal Eagle over here! :D

    HA! I totally missed that! You were just talking about somebody but never named them and I didn't bother looking back at the last comment, so I was like, Who the HELL is he talking about?! :D Well, that SUCK bigtime, but I can't say I'm shocked. What more does he have to do exactly? I guess a match with Cena or a match with Taker at Mania, but other then that, Rock's done everything that could POSSIBLY be done. To be honest, I can't see Rock come back any time soon... Not in the TV-PG WWE... He'd have to tame his act SO much it would probably be painful to see! "The Rock is gonna lay the smackdown on ALL your candy-butts!" Just not the same ring to it...

    HA! "You want to start trouble, go to Metropolis. Superman loves that kind of attention!" In fairness, Bats didn't EVER tell Cap not to stay in Gotham, and while he tried to throw Spidey out at first, he did shake Spidey's hand at the end of that comic. So basically only Captain America didn't get the whole, "STAY OUT OF GOTHAM!!!" speech.

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  45. "Sheesh... Mr. Legal Eagle over here!" Lmao, I'm stealing the phrase Legal Eagle now, because that's just plain awesome.

    Haha, good point. And yeah, he basically said he's accomplished all he ever wanted to, and that's not bad since he was only there for like seven years. I'd love to see the matches ya named but ah well.

    Well shit, you can't tell Captain AMERICA to stay outta a city, he'll get your ass deported. "That Batman is a damn immigrant, get him outta my country!"

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  46. HA! Be my guest! It's all yours, JT!

    Yeah, Rock has to be like the only person in wrestling HISTORY that actually went out on top! I mean he was like what, 30 or so when he left? He easily could have went another 15 years or so... God, imagine how many titles/awesome storylines he would have been in had he stayed? I wonder if he had stuck around if he would have been the guy to snap Taker's streak? I mean he was WWE for life, so it would have made sense...

    HA!!! That is frigging AWESOME!
    Cap: "You mean Gotham City AMERICA, Batman? Are you sure you want to tell Captain AMERICA he can't step foot in a city in AMERICA!!!"
    Bats: "Stay the hell out of my city, America!!!"

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  47. Funny thing is, I think Rock is humble enough that he wouldn't have wanted to end Taker's streak. I do recall reading Taker wanted Kane to end it back at Wrestlemania 20 (?) I believe. Him and Randy Orton, but Vince said no. I still think they should've saved Jericho/Taker for Mania since they'd never wrestled up until about a year ago.

    Lol @ Stay outta my city, America! Maybe that's why Gotham was cut off during No Man's Land, cause Bats pissed off Cap too badly.

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  48. Yeah, totally agreed with Rock. If he was told to do it, I'm sure he would have done it, same if they would have told him to let Taker defeat him in like 2 minutes. Rock would just go out there and do whatever he was asked to do... Well except sell being run down by a truck... But hey, nobody's perfect!

    Huh, I'd never heard about the Kane thing... I wonder why and what that would have accomplished. Now Orton WOULD have made sense. Especially since he was in the middle of the Legend Killer stage of his career. I remember reading that Orton was slated for surgery right after that match, which may have been one of the reasons he didn't get the win. But yeah, I do rememeber that there was a lot of talk about Orton being the guy to do it at the time.

    See, that would have made perfect sense with regards to continuity. Cap could have been like, "Hey Batman, remember that time you were an ass to me when I visited Gotham? NOW who's the ass!!!"

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  49. Haha, not even a truck can stop The Rock. I still don't know why they even WROTE that!

    I think that Legend Killer gimmick had a LOT of room to grow, I wouldn't mind them giving that to someone else. Just a great gimmick. And yeah, It would've been big for Orton. Orton and HBK are the only people I've ever thought would end the streak.

    Lol and Cap would have ALL of America behind him, just cause he's Cap. Captain America, the biggest A-Hole in America.

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  50. Totally agreed! Why not just leave that little part out of the storyline? It added nothing and made Rock look inhuman and the NWO look like a bunch of idiots(although in all fairness, Hogan doesn't need help looking like an idiot...)

    Agreed, agreed, AGREED! Orton was awesome with that gimmick, and I'd be ALL for somebody else using it, although maybe in a few more years, when Orton is ebtering the twilight of his career. That way some up and comer could try to kill his career. I think I'd have to agree with you. Orton because it made the most sense, and HBK because you KNOW he's never going to leave the E, so you know he'd be the most logical choice. Triple H was also an option. I didn't think it BEFORE the match, but during the match it REALLY seemed like Trips could have eeked out the win.

    HA!! He'd be like, "You're just Batman! I'm Captain Frigging America! Who do YOU think the people are gonna side with?!"

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  51. Haha exactly! It's not like he sold ANYTHING from it, so it just made it look like a bad action movie. Speaking of which, The Rock is in the new Fast and the Furious, Fast Five, hunting down Paul Walker and Vin Diesel.

    That was a fun match. They should've made it a Street Fight though since they were outta the ring like fifteen minutes and never got counted out.... And yeah, that Legend Killer gimmick would be perfect for a new up-and-comer if they started with Orton. I'd really love to see that.

    And of course Batman would have no one to turn to, unless he like tried to use Supes as a mouthpiece?

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  52. Yeah, I saw the trailer during the Super Bowl last night. I also saw the Captain America trailer and I can't say I was overly impressed...

    HA!!! The ref took a bump in that match and was down for like 15 minutes!!! Trips and Taker did their brawl thing all over the arena and the ref just laid in the ring the WHOLE time! That was so damn hilarious! It was like, maybe somebody should check on him, because he might be dead or something!

    I wonder if Supes would come to Bats' aid... I mean Supes is all about Truth, Justice and the American Way and all, so maybe he'd side with Cap. Then Bats would REALLY be screwed!

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  53. I didn't see the Cap Trailer, but I'm not shocked. I did see the Thor one a while ago and that looked like crap, so I'm not surprised.

    Lol right?! That dude shouldn't have been able to count to three cause he CLEARLY had brain damage, I mean damn, that dude was OUT.

    Oh he'd side with him. I can see Batman's reply now. "You'd better side with me you alien S.O.B., or not only will I ban you from Gotham, but I'll rain down upon you with SO MUCH Kryptonite you'd think I blew up the planet MYSELF!"

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  54. I know the Thor trailer was supposed to be on, but somewhere along the line I missed it. Oh well, I'd NEVER see the Thor movie anyway, so no biggie.

    Dude, seriously! I mean DAMN, couldn't they have come up with a better spot then THAT?! Like you said, why not make it a street fight? That would have made way more sense then the ref bump of DEATH!!!

    Wait, that sounds more like Jason Todd than Bats!

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  55. Good point. I'm pretty much done with Marvel movies, I mean I liked Spidey and they ruined and rebooted it, they rebooted Fantastic Four for no reason, Thor will probably suck, Wolverine Origins was meh, and there ya go.

    Haha, I remember the build up to that match was SO good. When Trips broke up Taker's bike, I thought all hell was gonna break loose, then again I was like ten or eleven.

    Maybe that's cause in my world, Jason Todd IS Bats ;-)

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  56. Would you believe that I actually sat through the entire Wolvie Origins movie this past Sunday before the Super Bowl?! I know, crazy!!! I'll have to agre with you though, I'd call it meh. They took a little bit too many liberties with Wolvie's origin for my liking. I'm still intrigued by the Cap movie, but yeah, they haven't exactly busted out great movies lately. Still, I'd take a frigging Elektra 2 movie over a 2 hour long Hal Jordan blow job piece, so yeah.

    HA! I love the way people would mess with Taker's bike back then to mess with him! I remember the Dudleys or Edge and Christian messed with his bike, and I can also remember A-Train messing up Taker's mirrors on the bike before a match they had. I had to laugh because it was such a little thing, but heel-wise, it was pretty cool move. The match sucked like CRAZY, but that one little dick move always stuck with me.

    Your world is a weird and scary place, JT...

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  57. Really?! You'll watch that, but not Red Hood? I hate you X. Lol, and you calling that GL movie a two hour blow job piece was hilarious. I could see the Cap movie being good, but I doubt I'll see it any time soon.

    I can only imagine how bad a match that was. I recall Big Show and A Train vs. Taker at a Mania... who the hell thought THAT was a good idea. What's worse, he was supposed to have the super green Nathan Jones as a tag partner and he was so bad they took him out hours before mania!

    It's better than a world where Damian is a 100 year old Batman that keeps using the Lazarus pits.

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  58. It was my sister's doing, not mine! I told you she was there on Sunday, and she was the one who spotted that movie on the program guide. If she wasn't there, I never would have watched that movie! Seriously!!

    If I'm not mistaken, that's the match I was thinking of, that handicap match. Yeah, I remember the Nathan Jones thing! He was scheduled for the match right up til the event, and then all of a sudden he was "injured" backstage! I don't remember him being around a lot lobger after that either.

    Maybe, maybe not!

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  59. Sure sure sure, blame it on the younger, more attractive X-Girl!

    You know whats weird... The Great Khali has lasted WAY longer than him. I didn't expect Khali's big uncoordinated ass to last a year. Now he's a former world Champion.....

    Definitely!

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  60. "blame it on the younger, more attractive X-Girl!" :/

    Dude, I was SHOCKED when Khali became the champ!!! I just never saw it coming! When he became the champ he basically had two moves(clubbing forearms and brainchop, as opposed to now, where he has four moves!)and I don't recall him being over in the least! If EVER Vince's irrational love of big men was on display, it was right there, because Khali's title reign was just mind-boggling!

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  61. Haha, not a fan of that reply eh?

    Lol the sad thing is, Matt Hardy was still over then cause it was like 06/07 after his return and he could've EASILY became champ in that battle royal and then feuded with Edge more upon his return. But no.... Khali got it, and then dropped it to.... Batista I believe.

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  62. Although I can't stand Matt Hardy now, that scenario would have made WAY more sense than how things actually played out. Hell, pretty much ANYTHING would have made more sense than a Great Khali title reign!

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  63. I feel the same way. I used to be one of Matt's BIGGEST supporters, but now... I mean, it's like he went crazy before our eyes.

    Oh, Vince announced they'll be a Wrestlemania host... and rumor is its The Rock, well find out this Monday. It has to be Rock or Austin, no one else has the star power.

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  64. Dude, really! I mean, I always thought he'd be the Hardy to go on and have a long and successful career when they split, but he basically peaked with Matt Hardy 2.0 and then it was a LOOOOOONG downhill fall from there! That guy really went over the deep end...

    A guest host for Mania?! That's... interesting... I mean does an event as big as Mania NEED a guest host? I can't see people paying, what is it now, $60(?) to see a guest host, who'll probably only be on the show for what, 15-20 minutes tops? I mean Rock would be awesome, but is that really going to entice non-regular fans to shell out that $? You'd think they'd try to get a major celebrity with some crossover appeal or something. If they ever did get Rock, that should be on Raw, because non-regular wrestling fans would definitely tune in to see him. I know I sure as HELL would! But am I going to put out 60$ to see Rock at Mania? No. No way.

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  65. So did I, but yeah, after that gimmick and the feud with Edge his career hit that glass ceiling, then he went bat-shit crazy and yeah...

    I'd say so, people haven't seen Rock at Mania in like seven years, and they'll pay to see him do skits and stuff, especially with this years Mania kinda bleh in terms of Miz/Cena, Orton/Punk, Del Rio/Edge and possibly Trips/Taker with HBK reffing which is the rumor going around. Just some of the possible interactions alone would make people wanna pay to see it or people who probably werent going to will change their minds to see Rock run into Cena, Miz, Punk, and etc. I could see it, but we'll find out Monday.

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  66. That Edge fued DESTROYED any hope Hardy had of getting over big time. That match at Summerslam(I want to say)that was stopped by the ref before it ever got going did it for him. I remember watching that and being like, "How the hell can he ever come back from THAT?!" Conventional wisdom would have had either Matt beat the HELL out of Edge and Edge lose by a countout after high-tailing it, or Edge winning with a handful of tights or his feet on the ropes. The way that match ended just cut him off at the knees and his career never really recovered.

    I wouldn't blame the glass ceiling on Matt's lack of a to the moon push. In all honestly he was lazy imho. He got over as 2.0, had Moore with him as a lacky, and won the cruiser belt, and then basically got stagnant. Same moveset, same style, same interview, same hand gestures, same look, same everything. I mean it's not like he was ever as over as Jericho or Eddy and kept getting bumped down the card before they finally broke through. Looking back, I can honestly say he just didn't ever really scream "star" at me. Solid midcard/upper-midcarder, sure, but main event talent? Nah. He just doesn't have it. Could you seriously see Matt Hardy as the face of your company?

    I don't know dude, Mania is A LOT of $... I don't know that I'd be willing to plunk down big money to see Rock do a guest host gig. Wrestle one more time? Hell yeah, I'd pay to see that. But to host? Nah, just too much money. But that's just me. I just can't fathom paying $60 to see Rock call Miz a jabroni!

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  67. Yep it was Summerslam. I mean, all that time and build up and he barely even got ANY offense. He won the Unforgiven cage match but that Street Fight thing was stupid, it was just making Hardy pay for being so outspoken about it. And the fact that he went from being SO loved by the fans that he got his job back to being an idiot that EVERYONE hates is crazy. Same with Jeff... two years ago he was almost as big as Cena in the WWE, almost selling as much as Cena, main eventing with four star matches with Punk, know he's coked outta his mind in TNA feuding with Mr. Kenned.. oh I'm sorry Mr. Anderson....Anderson.

    I think Matt worked when he had too, like around 2006 he was constantly working his ass off, I remember he feuded with Helms and they had some of my favorite non-main event matches ever, but I think he got complacent once he realized he was going nowhere and got lazy as hell, then when they wanted to pull the trigger if they ever did, they could always blame him being lazy.

    The difference is, you have common sense. You also wouldnt pay to see Miz wrestle Lawler, yet some people will. I think people who are on the fence tho may be tempted just to see Rock. But someone who's not watching wrestling like yourself, I doubt would be swayed unless Rock was actually gonna wrestle like ya said.

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  68. Yeah, that street fight was a frigging disaster. I didn't even remember him getting the win in that cage match until you mentioned it. That street fight just sucked all of his heat away. I mean he had CRAZY build leading up to that match and then he was just destroyed... It was some bizarre-ass booking.

    Well Helms was actually a REALLY good worker when he wasn't doing that Hurricane gimmick which went on for WAAAAAY too long. I'd have actually preferred pushing Helms to Matt. I like Helms's in ring work more than Hardy's. Anyway, if Matt COULDN'T pull out good matches with his best friend, there was a serious problem... Then again, his matches with Jeff ALWAYS sucked, so go figure.

    No, I have common sense sometimes... Remember how much $ I spend on comics every week before proclaiming me the bastion of common sense! :D Anyway, I'll agree with that. If you're a casual fan, and were undecided as to whether you'd want to order Mania based on the current expected matches, Rock showing up might just sway ya. But for somebody like me, nah.

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  69. The crowd went CRAZY when he attacked Edge backstage. Also, we should've known Matt was bat-shit crazy when he said he wanted "Edge to die in a car crash" or something of that nature.

    Haha his matches with Jeff did suck. In hindsight that Hurricane gimmick COULD'VE worked, he even got big wins over Rock and Triple H, and especially with them being PG they could market him as a big hero kinda like they do with Rey. I did like when he dropped the gimmick and was just Gregory Helms and was Cruiserweight champ for like a year.

    Haha, I loved you calling yourself out for that. And good point on your having common sense sometimes :D And yeah, I think thats what Vince is banking on.

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  70. If they would have capitilized on Matt's crazy heat when he first came back MAYBE he would have become a legit main eventer like Edge did. I still kind of doubt it, but with the way the title is passed around nowadays, it's pretty telling that he never got a run with one of the two main straps. A fued with Edge when he was the champ would have made sense, but yeah, the E definitely didn't think he had what it took to be at the top of the card for any length of time.

    Great point about how well the Hurricane gimmick could have worked in the current PG era. For me though that gimmick was doomed to the lower to midcard forever, no matter who he beat. It would have been like Doink the Clown becoming the champ. Just too much gimmick and not enough person, you know? I also loved when he went by Gregory Helms and had that belt for like a year. To be honest, JBL's commentary really helped out that title run, because I recall him usually putting Helms over pretty hard. I still would have preferred it if he'd have stuck with Shane Helms though!

    Well, hopefully it works out for Vince, but like I said when we first started this convo, I think getting a non-wrestling celeb would draw more eyeballs to Mania. But I can definitely see how having Rock would def help the buyrate.

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  71. True, the best they ever did was give him the ECW belt which he ended up dropping to Jack Swagger while he was still a rookie... so yeah. No offense to Jack.

    Excellent comparison with Doink, it makes a ton of sense when you put it that way, but now in the PG era I could see him being pretty damn big. Oh definitely, JBL put over Helms SO much, it really made him look like more of a threat. He did it to Matt too, which is another reason Matt seemed so formidable when he was putting on 15 minute matches every week on Smackdown.

    I see your point but after trying Trump, Kim Kardashian, Snoop Dogg and other people who are more mainstream and not really getting much I can see how they would try for Rocky.

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  72. It's actually weird that they never went back and gave Matt a shot at being a top guy with a fued with Edge for the title after Edge had become a bonafide main eventer. I guess the E never really had any confidence in Matt as a top of the card draw. And no, I don't count the ECW belt!

    That is SO true! A Hurricane like character would probably be HUGE on a show like Smackdown. Give him a super-villain type of enemy after he's been established(like Kane to Undertaker)and yeah. It's actually werid they haven't come up with something like that. Hell, think of the money you could make off of merch, in masks and such alone.

    IDK, the Trump thing actually got them attention on the Today show. I remember I was watching the day after Mania and Vince showed up for an interview and showed off his new haircut. The Mayweather/Big Show thing also got them some play on ESPN, both before and after Mania, so if done right, a mainstream celeb can at least get Vince SOME mainstream attention, which is really all he seems to want anyways.

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  73. Haha, but that prestigious belt was also held by Kane, Mark Henry, Chavo Guerrero and the likes! It did help boost careers or Morrison, Punk and Swagger though.

    Yep, but instead they fired him last year. I always wondered why they never gave him a villain, hell you could take a good worker you don't even use like Chavo or someone they had like Brian Kendrick or Paul London and have them work great matches with him.

    Hm.. good point, as of right now the rumors are Bob Barker...lmao. I'm serious, but well know tonight.

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  74. "prestigious belt"... *shakes head* Once you said Mark Henry, who's claim to fame will always be fathering a hand with Mae Young you lost me... :P

    A guy like Kendrick would have been awesome. They could have started out as a super-hero team, and slowly Kendrick could have turned to the dark side, ultimately becoming the "evil" Hurricane... See, that stuff writes itself!

    Bob Barker, eh? Hmm......... I guess it already happened, so I'm sure you'll be filling me in!

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  75. Haha, let us not forget, dating Chyna. Dating a transvestite (didn't I just say that, hiyoooo) and the numerous other gimmick fails.

    I would've LOVED that. And you're right, a hero team for those two, then Kendrick wants to "grow up" or get outta his shadow, turns on him, bam. It works.

    And you were correct, it was great man, definitely warranted the week of hype.

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  76. HA!!! Once you said "dating Chyna. Dating a transvestite" I immediately thought you meant Chyna! :D

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  77. Haha I figured you'd like that one. Oh, so I don't know if I mentioned it but rumor is they may do Trips vs. Taker at Mania as Trips wants to avenge HBK being retired. Also HBK may be the ref. Thoughts on that?

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  78. I think that's one of the few big matches they could do for Taker. I'd heard rumors about Sting(which I doubt), but besides Trips(or Sting if that did somehow happen)who else could POSSIBLY look like a threat to Taker? One of those new guys? Nah. Trips is like the lone established guy who isn't currently in a feud. It does make sense. Doubt it would be a great match, but at least it would be more suspenseful than Taker squashing some rookies.

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  79. Thats a damn good point, cause it's either Trips, Kane (Dear God no), Big Show (See Kane), or that's pretty much it. Everyone else is in a feud and Barrett or Sheamus or someone else isn't over enough.

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  80. EXACTLY! NOBODY wants to see Taker fight Show or Kane(except for Vince probably), which would make Trips the most logical choice. Well besides Cena, but obviously that ain't happening.

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  81. Speaking of which buddy, I just read this. "The Undertaker vs. Triple H is currently penciled in as the main event for WrestleMania XXVII, according to this week's issue of the Wrestling Observer Newsletter.

    Many people within the company are saying that Triple H will put his career on the line against The Undertaker, with Shawn Michaels acting as the special guest referee. The Observer, however, adds that the stipulations of the match are not concrete."

    I think retiring The Game should go to someone who NEEDS it to get over like Morrison or Daniel Bryan or Barrett or someone to give them a push... not Taker...

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  82. I don't know if I'd agree with you on who should get the honor of retiring Trips... I mean I totally get where you're coming from, and a guy like Sheamus retiring Trips would MAKE his career, but I think a guy like Trips should get to choose who gets to end his career. Flair wanted HBK to do the honors(although we all know how long THAT lasted)while HBK wanted it to be Taker since they had been together in the E for SO long. If Trips wants Taker to do it, then I can't begrudge him that. Anyway, since Trips is a major part of the company now, I'm sure he can come out of retirement whenever he wants(hell, Vince wrestles the occasional match in his 60's), so his retirement means less than a guy like HBK or Flair, who you thought might possibly STAY retired.

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  83. Well that is a good point, I think the main thing is kinda like you said, yuou don't want someone like Morrison or Sheamus ending it and running off to TNA as the guy that retired The Game and etc. I can see why they'd want someone like Taker or a definite mainstay to do that. But It would be awesome for someone to get that rub from a huge win like Swagger or McIntyre or someone that could parlay that one win into a career.

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  84. Yeah, retiring Trips breaking Taker's streak would MAKE your career FOREVER! You could point back at that and always be considered a huge threat. "I was the guy who ended 6,000 time champion Triple H's career! THAT'S why I deserve a title shot!" But of course the problem with that is say Swagger retires Trips, and then goes to TNA as the guy who retired the 6,000 time WWE champion. It's just TOO risky to give somebody who's been with the company for less than like 10-15 years that accomplishment. You need a total, locked-up for life company man to do that.

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  85. Yep agreed. I doubt they'd even give that to Cena or Orton which is pretty funny. I think one guy who could definitely put that feather in his cap is CM Punk, he could use a HUGE win like that and would definitely benefit from it. And anyone he puts over would as well.

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  86. Not Orton. He seems like a company guy, but he's had a few shaky events in his past. I'd say yes to Cena, but NOT quite yet... Maybe in another 5 years or so, but not yet. I've NEVER heard anything bad about him from anybody, he seems like a model employee and seems to legit love being in the E. I doubt he'd ever go anywhere else. But ya never know...

    Punk REALLY needs that big, career defining victory. That's why it sucks he's getting put with Orton at Mania. A win over Cena, the E's top face, would have really made Punk's career. It's too bad he never crossed paths with HBK, because the matches would have been off the charts and a win over a legend like Shawn would have went a long way in permanently making Punk a heel force.

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  87. I agree on both accounts buddy, especially Orton, hell if he gets suspended again they have to fire him due to all his violations in that heathcare policy thing. And I agree about Cena, apparently The Miz is the same was as Cena.

    Damn you're right about Punk HBK, I could see Punk getting that win over Orton but it wouldn't matter as much as that win over HBK or Cena or Trips or Taker would.

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  88. Yeah, Orton has already violated that wellness policy a few times(I think), plus I've heard other less than favorable stories about him. That's something I've NEVER read about Cena. No violations, no troubles on the road, no politicing, no nothing... He can't be that perfect, can he?! Miz still has a WAYS to go before I could look at him as a guy who'll be with the E forever.

    Right?! That's like the perfect feud for Punk! Especially with how religious HBK is compared to Punk's messiah character. It would have been such a natural feud, and a win over HBK would have absolutely MADE Punk's career... Oh well...

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  89. Yeah Orton has violated it twice, and I definitely agree, Cena hasn't had one bad thing said about him to my knowledge. And Yeah, what I meant is Miz is a workhourse like Cena, using his free time to promote and flying from Cali to NY then Miami then Cleveland and etc just to promote and do interviews and shit like Cena does.

    You know, that would still kinda work. They could build TWO people with it too. What they should do is after HBK goes into the HOF, he can come to Raw and thank the fans again or whatever, and have Punk interrupt him, taking a ton of shots at him. I mean I'd give those two like 10 mins of promo time just to go back and forth, and have Punk try to taunt HBK and say stuff like "Go ahead Shawn, go back on your word, you've done it SO manu times... or do you not remember screwing Bret Hart?" and etc, then this continues until it's interrupted by HBK saying his time is over, but there's one man who can still take Punk down the way he would, and then Daniel Bryan comes out since he was HBK's student and protege. Then boom, Punk and Bryan put on 5 star matches like they did in Ring of Honor. Speaking of which, Bryan was trained by Michaels, Regal and Finlay. And I recall when Punk was on Commentary he's like "Why do you guys mention HBK all the time, Regal did the real work, Michaels just took 2000 dollars from Bryan!" which I found hilarious.

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  90. Hmm, that scenario works out GREAT! And it's something they could easily do too. Especially since it doesn't look like HBK is coming back. Bryan gets the rub from being with Shawn, and Punk gets the win in the end. I mean that is SO perfect it's not even funny! Dude, you NEED to go and do some writing for the E! Pronto!

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  91. Thanks man. I'd love to write for the E if I had the opportunity too, hell I'd try to bring you in first chance I got, the fact you actually KNOW what the hell you're talking about puts you over half the writers they have now...

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  92. Excellent! I knew if I complimented you enough I'd get a job out of it! Now I just need you to get picked up by the E and I'll be set for the rest of my life! :D

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  93. :P See all the good that comes with complimenting me? So... you gonna add me as a buddy link? :P If not, you will besmirch me, yet YOU will be the Regal to the awesomeness that is my Y2J circa 2000-2001.

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  94. Get me that job first and then we'll talk! :P I'd be perfectly fine with being Regal circa 2000-2001 myself. Oh, and 50 coolness points for using “besmirched” in a sentence.

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  95. Haha why thank you. And no problemo. Okay, we're a month away from Mania give or take. Looks to be Cenz/Miz, Orton/Punk, Del Rio/Edge and maybe HHH/Taker... what would you add or change to make this a MUST BUY, within reason of course.

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  96. Depends on what you'd consider "within reason"! I mean the dream match would be Rock/Cena, especially after that promo. If you could do that you'd free up somebody else to challenge Miz for the championship. I mean Cena is a big enough star that he really doesn't need to be in the championship match at Mania. I guess I'd possibly want to switch Punk to face Cena, to give Punk the higher profile match. Idk. The card isn't HORRIBLE, but I just don't see anything overly spectacular. At least most of the match-up's look fresh, which is a nice change of pace.

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  97. Agreed, and yeah most of the matches haven't been done before. Oh, and the Elimination Chamber ppv was last night, and Cena won, cementing Miz vs. Cena for the belt, and Christian came back to save Edge after he was getting beat up by Del Rio after Edge retained in the SD Chamber match... so let the Edge vs. Del Rio vs. Christian speculation begin, especially since Del Rio's the one who injured Christian. And Trish Stratus came back and was announced to be a Tough Enough trainer on the new season along with Austin and Booker T.

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