It's AvX time! You had to know it was coming at some point during the week! Well, let's get to it.
X-Men Legacy #266(AvX x-over issue):
Story Points:
-Rachel and Iceman decide to join up with Lord Summers and his Brotherhood. The rest of the staff is either undecided or would rather watch the students.
-Falcon, She-Hulk and Moon Knight head to the school and complain about Iceman and Rachel assisting Lord Summers.
-Rogue basically tells the trio of Avengers that the two were their own people and could make whatever choices they wanted, at which point the Avengers decide they wanted to watch the school... What jerks!
-Rogue agrees, but tells the Avengers to stay 100 yards away so as to not instigate the kids or staff. The Avengers agree and go 101 yards away... Again, what jerks!
-Frenzy heads over to the Avengers and taunts Moon Knight, causing him to attack. Rogue spots this and heads out to play peacemaker.
-Hellion, Match and Glob Herman figure that Rogue and Frenzy had been attacked and rush over to assist their teachers.
-She-Hulk does the Hulk-clap at the kids, injuring Hellion and royally pissing Rogue off, causing her to attack the Avengers for real.
-Falcon calls in his secret weapon, and this issue ends with Iron Man(!) responding to Falcon's distress signal.
Thoughts: Wow, this was the first time the Avengers were written in a totally unlikable way! Kudos to Christos Gage for doing the impossible and getting me to look at the Avengers in a different(and negative) light. Who are they to decide to put a school in lockdown because TWO(and only two!) members of the staff headed off to help Lord Summers and his Brotherhood?! That seemed very heavy-handed of the Avengers and kind of unacceptable. It's not like the entire school joined the Brotherhood, it was only TWO people, and two people with very strong ties to Lord Summers(Iceman was an original X-Man with Lord Summers while Rachel is his alternate daughter). The Avengers showing up, and the fact that they were led by Falcon(which leads me to believe they were sent by Captain America himself), continues to show the cracks forming in Captain America's leadership and the way he's dealing with this event. All around good stuff here.
Score: 8 1/2 out of 10.
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Soooooo agree with you X!! What is going on with this ham handed avengers story line! The are coming off like bullies and moon knight acted like mark fuhrman ! Jane saying she didn't know they was kids was like unreal I mean she knew she was at a school ! X men are getting no respect for ALL the times the have saved the world sheesh. I don't see how anyone could back the avengers play on this school event...
ReplyDeleteRespectfuly i can not agree....... mostly.
ReplyDeletefirstly i dont think rachel or iceman had left yet (read wolverine and the x-men) just where planning too.
ok Moon Knight was a Bad choice to send, she hulk was written out of character here, but they need a power house.
falcon is a good honest character, i think he was a ok choice to send.
and they backed off too, kitty asked they at least leave the schools perimiter and they did so, if they where really trying to be bullying dicks they would have just said no we will patrol where we wish, but no they left the schools offical property witch im sure gave some of the students some amount of releif.
and here is the primary reason im still on the avengers side on this. Frenzy YES she was within her right to go and stand there and watch them as she pleases, yes moon knight shoud not have touched her, BUT if she hadnt gone out there Nothing would have happened, no one would have gotten hurt the avengers would have just stayed in there quin jet and not bothered anyone (unless of course some other unseen situation arose). and she was the only one itching for a fight, when she first came out there falcon just said flat out do as you wish!
and what if the avengers hadnt been dispatched there, and one mutant in side had saw footage of the avengers on utopia attacking there fellow x-men and decided to take it out on some other normal people and inocent people got hurt or killed cus the avengers team wasent there to prevent it, the public later on would hold the avengers and the goverment responsible for there deaths, claiming it was irresponsible, reckless and neglegent for them not to send agents to the jean grey school to keep things under control.
That argument sound like aproving the Japanese coincentration camp in United States during the WW2...(A subjet that Gage also mentioned in Avengers Academy)
DeleteAnd you are totally right Freenzy started all.. But the avengers speech was full of hate towerd the mutant race in a very racist way so only for that reason I was siding with the X-Men here.
In fairness, they aren't fencing off the school and not letting anyone out. They are watching it as far as I remember.
DeleteNot that I am disagreeing with you but I will point out a few points. WATXM took place a while before this because Wolvie was still on team Avengers then but is not as of this issue (at least they are hinting at it). So, Rachel and Iceman had already left and it is not surprising that the Avengers knew about it. Also, Wolvie is no longer with the Avengers. So, although Wolvie wouldn't do this and CA should know it, it is a possibility that Wolvie would recruit members of his staff for his Hope hunting. The staff of the school doesn't know any of this either. So... I could see why the Avengers would be interested in watching the school.
ReplyDeleteyeah if they where locking them up in camps that would be wrong, (as the avengers academy stuff appears to be doing) but just putting avengers members at the school to keep an eye on things is fine, itd be no diffrent then cops hanging out around a regualar school after soom gang shootings took place recently
ReplyDeleteYeah you are right I went I litle out of the way with that example...
DeleteBut still think that the avengers used kind of inapropiated words..
Moon Knights said "you people"
And the most absurd She Hulk saing "a Kid? I saw a monster.." seriously? A hulk judging whats is a monster?
And what if a group of X-Men goes to the Baxter building just be sure that the bunch of kid of the Future Foundation dont take side with his Uncle and the avengers?
Wow ...ok .. I like the cop view on this so lets apply it. Your school 2 teachers leave to go help baddies.. So cops come stakeout your school. Your teacher gets involved in a verbal dispute with one of the cops that said "you ppl" then that same cop during the verbal dispute assaults your teacher then kids run to defend thier teacher and another cop severely injures 3 kids... Do you realy think ppl wouldn't be pissed at the cops that a) makes racist remarks b) assaults civvies c) injures kids .. What world would that be ok? As the cop role you make yourselves above assualting civilians in verbal disputes . Moon might lost it completely no doubt... To expand on the hurting minors thing look at it this way do cops open fire when they know kids are around .. Or in a domestic area like a front lawn and the father is fighting police and you know there children do you use a flash bang grenade ?? And for Jen to say oh I didnt know they were children was just dumb...she think she was at a army base? Oh that's right she knew they were at a " school" not a college a elementary school/ high school ... Now Movie you said If she wouldn't went out there everything would be fine she IMO had done nothing wrong and in this country you can go where ya like and say what ya like by the first admendment nothing wrong with walking up to a cop and telling him he's a psycho and she's proved right when he goes nuts ..point proved. .. He's the one trying to act like the law. Plus if have done nothing wrong cops can't come on your land and sit and whatch you this is an act of fascistism somthing that has been growing in this story line.. And to you comment about what if one see on tv and decided to o hurt non muntants or somthing is just wow .. That's like saying a Muslim blew up a building now were gonna sit outside thier homes and mosques to make sure none else jump in ...that's fascist look it up ... We didn't do that after 9 11 cause it's wrong ... I the chief a police is. A over the top guy like cap has been then his troops will be worse then history shows,,,falcon was the only one trying IMO ....I think ppl that know what fasicts are can see this easy or ppl that know about nazis k ow this well....if you don't see it like this just read up on the five majors things about being a fascist ...I would love to hear ya chat back at me ! ALL in FUN!! I respect you opinions just cant see it that way maybe you,could explain it better....any rate take care and I await your rebuttle good sir!
ReplyDeleteI can totally see why the Avengers would want to watch the school, especially in light of the fact that two faculty members and one student left in WatXM(which like Jermox said, almost definitely came before this issue), but did they have to land on the front lawn of what is a school and state as much? AND send Moon Knight, who's crazy on a good day!? I'd think the better/smarter move would have been to secretly watch the school, if the Avengers could cloak a helicarrier from Utopia's sensors, I'm sure they could have figured out a way to hide from Wolvie's radar.
ReplyDeleteBasically, I just saw this issue as some really bad strategy from Cap and company, and everybody knows I see Cap as sacred and all! Knowing there were hotheads at the school(Gambit and Frenzy immediately come to mind), as well as several hormonal teenagers, who aren't gonna like “The Man” watching over them, how could Cap possibly see this as leading to anything BUT a confrontation? Mainly it seemed as if the Avengers were damning the entire school due to the actions of three people. I can understand how strategy-wise Cap thought it was good to keep an eye on the school to make sure they aren't harboring/assisting the Brotherhood, but this seemed like an instance where stealth/subterfuge would have been the way to go.
Don't get me wrong. I am only stating that I understand Cap's assumed reasoning for watching this school. I still think that this was at best poorly executed and at worst a horrible idea. But, it fits with the whole idea that the pressure is coming down hard on Cap and he is becoming more aggressive than he usually would.
ReplyDeleteWhat I have liked about these X-men comics is that the authors are adding a sociological (if that's the right term) aspect to this series. You have people from Wolvie's school identity themselves by their species as people identifying themselves by race or nationality. So, you can have people at Wolvie's school, not affiliated with Cyclops, stating "They are attacking us". The idea that mutants would identify themselves as mutants and wouldn't like the non-mutants attacking mutants despite the reasoning, is just another case where there has been some good writing in AvX (I am starting to sound like a broken record now).
ULTIMATUM 2012
ReplyDelete"That's like saying a Muslim blew up a building now were gonna sit outside thier homes and mosques to make sure none else jump in ...that's fascist look it up ... We didn't do that after 9 11 cause it's wrong"
yeah you know what else is fucking wrong letting them Murder people! just cus it might be moraly questionable how we fucking do it.
you sound like the people protesting the avengers mansion or the people that supported Norman Osborn in Hammer Round 2.
Yes as i said frenzy was within her right to as she wished and falcon knew that and said for her to do as she wished, but she was the one seeking out this fight, if she wasnt she would have the good god damn sense to not go out there.
a real person doesnt go walk up to a cop in real life (specialy one that is rumored to have mental problems) and start insulting them if they dont want trouble.
by doing what she did SHE put the school and the children in danger.
on the racist remark thing (while i do agree that she hulk was written out of character)
if a giant blob skeleton creature that is on fire is running at you, are you just going to stand there and let them do what ever they are gonna do cus oh i think this is just a poor defenseless mutant who isnt acutaly a monster,
OR
is your mind going to work like a real human mind would and as you suddenly see this monstrous creature running at you to possibly atempt to kill you, and you react to stop it!
i want a answer to this, i cant understand in anyway why people think this was so wrong on she hulks part.
if your holding a gun and suddenly a fully grown pissed off tiger jumps out of the bushes right at you, or say a person jumps at you with a butcher knife, what are you going to do? YOUR GOING TO FUCKING SHOOT IT! (in case i need to clarify it you shoot it to prevent it from harming you and or anyone your with)
she hulk did this, she did what she had to do to protect her self and her allies. and it could have been worse she could have punched him in the face wich might have killed him, but no she just blew then away with a gust of wind.
ok on the "i saw a monster line" this is not unacurate regardless if he is actualy a monster, he has a monsterous form and in the spilt second that she saw him running down on her, her mind of course just registers the fact that there is this monstrous thing coming at her to possibly to kill her, so her defense that she saw a monster and reacted to it, is not wrong, and she wasnt meaning that mutants in general are monsters, she was just descrebing that single one, rogue was the one that took the line in a racist way.
on the "You People" line
I HATE to no bloody end that that is considered a racist remark.
it is ment to specify a group of people that the person saying it is not apart of, that doesnt fucking mean he sees that group of people in a bad way at all, just that they are a seperate enity from the norm, and mutants are a seprate enitity from regular humans, thay say so them selves they have a differnt species name from us, if someone needed to refer to there whole species as a whole "you people" would not be un realistic term to use.
people use it all them time in non derogatory ways.
only when its said intentionly or not to people who have been discriminated against do they try to call the person out as being against them, witch it most of the time untrue.
and in this case, moonknight was stating that the x-men as a grouping of persons (regardless of them being mutants) are preventin the avengers from stoping the Pheniox, witch is true this group "them people" are indeed the ones in oposition of the avengers saving the planet, the line had nothing to do with there species,
like a cop says you people are destroying our country with your drugs to a drug lord, he wasnt meaning it offensivly cus they happen to be mexican
"But, it fits with the whole idea that the pressure is coming down hard on Cap and he is becoming more aggressive than he usually would." Yes, this exactly, Jermox. That's the point I've been(maybe poorly) trying to get across about this entire event. As it's going along, you can see Cap is starting to crack a bit, and this issue really shows that up well. Here's a man used to dealing with the Red Skull, Baron Zemo and Crossbones, and he has the fate of the entire planet on his shoulders. Not just a country, not a state, not a city, but the planet! As much as I love Cap, cosmic events really aren't his specialty.
ReplyDeleteMovieartman? You make a lot of great points, especially about the She-Hulk/Glob Herman thing and the "you people" line. If a flaming blob/skeleton monster ON FIRE came at me, yeah, I think I'd defend myself. The thing is the speed at which it all happened the entire scene probably took place over the course of what, 2-3 seconds? It was a totally judgment call. Yes it was a school, but when I giant flaming blob rushes you, you're gonna react. Same with the "you people" line... When put like that(Moon Knight saying "those people aren't helping us save the planet"), it isn't necessarily a racial thing, it's a regular speech thing. I've said "you people" to folks of the same race as me, just as, "you people haven't done such and such" it's not a racial thing, but that's just the way I'd talk to a group of people, regardless of race.
As for the 9/11 thing, that's a real sore spot for me, I was still living in NYC when that hellish day took place and lived through seeing all of those fliers asking for help looking for people(including a nice elderly man from my block who was never found...) and just the black cloud that was literally over the entire city for a few days. To this day I've never watched the footage, and that's not a subject I really want to see on this blog since it's supposed to be a happy place. Granted, you guys didn't know that, but yeah, all these years later, that day is still burnt into my psyche...
Both of you almost have me with your arguiments in the subjet about the "you people"
DeleteI understand it like he is refering to the entire mutant race ignoring that there are mutants in the avengers side
And I totally understand the the avengers logic but it is a bad ejecution for a good plan as you and Jermox expresed before
to X-MAN
ReplyDeletesorry to bring up bad memorys man :(
i understand completly.
and holy crap i went off on a rant in that last comment sorry lol
Ok from one point of view some of this would make sense but from a all sides point of view it don't ...Movie ..first on the avoid a crazy cop cause he's crazy? Realy? A crazy cop has no biz being a cop right? So to side with him cause you knew he was crazy so avoid him is like just weird and desperate to be right.. I mean how would that fly in non comic world? And what about a cop having to hold him himself to higher standers then a common citizen.....what to do if a flamin monsters running at you? Well if I'm a hulk it doesn't have to be smash first ask questions later right? You make it sound like she could've been killed this is a women that has battled the hulk so this extreme reaction to a flamin monster still is over the top ...if anyone is a tiger in that equation its she hulk so what happens when a dog jumps a tiger is more fair IMO ... .........Jen knows all the xmen she had to figure that was a student due to not knowing that char as a main xmen at least that would be the thought process in most ppl............. ...as for the Muslim / mutant view it could be Christian Oklahoma bombing...it could be any group that has had a few in it with extremist view that simple get the point? I will never agree to taking away the rights of all due to the dumb ass actions of the few or trampling the rights of Americans .... This who we are as americans ...protesting is American as apple pie btw if we didn't allow it there would be no USA for real look up our history...in the civil rights movement white ppl did some pretty awful stuff right? So do we stake out each ones house to make sure no more join the klan in missi?? This is a rights issue ppl "think about it from all sides" ... As to the you ppl comment it is a long standing segregation comment .. It is not we us it is decisive in separating them from us ... If used in football terms it's ok it's not being based on who we are as a human.... So this is about context when the phrased is used ...when used in the situation moon knight was in or in a civil rights protest this is considered a racial charged phrase like it or not that's a fact,,,, you can debate to ppl whether you think it is or not but by ppl by and large it is .....hence fact...you said you know what wrong is how we let them murder ppl....same thing could be said when whites are running around hanging blacks was a crap load more individual incidents meaning a more wide spread prob we handled that the same as we're handling current probs.. The moral high road is a bitch to walk i hate it sometimes to now a days but when takin it in as a historical context it is somthing we eventually find ourselves proud of ..think about it.......What is the essence of America? Finding and maintaining That perfect balance Between Freedom "to" And freedom " from" . - Marilyn Vos Savant,,The Parade...........
ReplyDeleteOn a side note why is it ppl freak out on me and go all disrespectful when I sign off on my post as friendly as I can ... And I respect all ppls opinions regardless if I agree or not .....gonna keep my class on this blog though ...."chin up"
ReplyDeleteWe're mainly on the same side this time with this issue, Ultimatum, but even still, you kind of come across as pretty confrontational. You may sign off friendly, but the meat of your post is, "You're wrong, you should study up on stuff, period." That's just the way I see it though and others may disagree with me. But that may be why you're getting the responses you're getting. But again, that's just the way I see it, and others may disagree.
ReplyDeleteULTIMATUM 2012
ReplyDeletesorry i didnt mean to give the impression that i was angry or freaking out on you honestly, and i appreatiate that you where trying to keep things civil, sorry if it seemed like i wasnt.
i curse offen in post and such, offen about such things that im not even angry about, i didnt mean any disrespect.
If I say read up on somthing that means its beyond my opinion I'm referencing facts or history which I think brings more meat to an opinion.. So if I debate others opinions or seem confrontational with others opinion then that's call for going off on someone ? Seem childish and normaly an act avoid an intellectual debate ... Whe I signed off I said if I don't agree with you maybe you could explain it better and I mean no offense ,a ll in fun ,, I respect all your opinions as I await your rebuttle good sir ..... Sheesh how much more could I have said to show I am just having fun? I dont call names and don't curse ppl s stance yet I am the bad guy ....realy?
ReplyDeleteAnd the drama continues to unfold...lol....sheesh. Well....guess boys will be boys. Just don't get it....this is comic books, so why is "everyone" (so many in our group of fellow bloggers as of lately, not everyone in the world...lol!..get it) taking this sooooo seriously as if it's real life. Blogging is for fun and enjoyment, not arguments (at least that's how I see it). And how in the world did something like 9/11 even get brought up....that a serious and sensitive subject that I dare not touch. I'm all about friendships and peace, not arguments and drama. What can be done about this VampX (like it, with your avatar and all)? I truly enjoy everyones viewpoints, but maaannnn, things really can get out of hand with all the serious sensitivity and commentary on the blog. Wow! If I offend anyone, sorry, not the intent....I did say I enjoy everyones viewpoints and commentary, just very surprised with the negative responsive aspect. Uummm, I do like all y'all. Please believe me.
ReplyDeleteWow thank you Movie ! Very cool of ya ! I am also sorry if I come off arrogant or snobbish =)))))) I do respect your views even the ones I don't agree with lol this is all in fun for me ! I hope to have many many debates with ya =)))
ReplyDeleteI am also sorry for using the 9/11 reference just a nowadays version of the rights debate like I used the civil rights of the past.. Wasn't my intent to hurt anyone just most ppl don't have the historical impact as much as a currant issue does ..."bows" to all serviceman and women!
ReplyDeleteULTIMATUM 2012
ReplyDeletesame here, Hopefuly there will be something we agree on too
:) hope you have a good week man :)
I bet we both agree this story line is good at dividing marvel fans lol ...you take care and I look forward to more chats!
ReplyDeleteI'm so impressed by this issue becuase, no matter how much I disagree with some of the position that the characters took, Gage does a great job of getting you to understand why they took them.
ReplyDelete(My one caveat is that I agree that She-Hulk was written totally out of character. Given that she's also in Tabula Rasa around this time, I've decided that she was actually meant to be a different character and the artist just "accidentally" drew her instead of, say, Betty Ross. I'm going with that.)
I agree with X-Man's comment that Cap sending a team, particuarly one that included Moon Knight, who, as someone noted, is cray-cray on a good day, is a sign of him getting significantly more aggressive. He's really, really losing control of events, so he's trying to assert control where he can.
I also thought that this issue really expanded on the idea that the X-Men view themselves as a separate race. The whole reason that Frenzy and Rogue were so quick to jump to conclusions was that they have an understandly well-developed persecution complex. I really feel like we're getting to the heart of the matter here, that the X-Men come at this issue from the perspective of that persecution complex. In fact, the problem I have with the X-Men's position is that it's all about them. At the end of the day, Cyclops is willing to risk the lives of six million people -- including the 200 mutants -- on the off-chance that a 15-year-old girl could use a destructive cosmic force for a creative use. Regardless of whether the Avengers are wrong here (they are) or the X-Men are right here (they are-ish), I just still find the X-Men to have a position that I view as myopic. But, I thought this issue did a great job of showing why the X-Men hold that position, and I really, really look forward to where Gage goes with it next issue.