Last Issue: 8 out of 10.
Review: This issue opens up with Roy managing to get the upper hand on Cheshire(who had arrived at Roy's place last issue to kill him as retribution for their daughter's death), even though he was only fighting with one arm... They then decide to try to have sex after Cheshire was bemoaning the death of their daughter, except Roy couldn't get going... Um, what in the BLUE HELL is going on here?!? Being frustrated by his inability to preform, Roy straps on his robot arm and decides to hit the streets. After messing up some losers, Roy's arm begins to pain him, which leads to him searching for, and finding a drug dealer. Roy scores some heroin, sits down in some alley and gets high. In his drugged up haze, Roy thinks Lian is there with him, and he winds up protecting her from an army of Prometheus's. Unfortunately, “Lian” happened to be a dead cat, and the “Prometheus's” were a bunch of hapless junkies. Batman arrives on the scene and him and drugged up Roy fight, with Bats knocking his longtime friend unconscious. Roy wakes up strapped down to a bed, with Black Canary sadly overlooking him. Roy demands to be let free, but Dinah tells him that with him back on heroin again, he was going to have to stay in a rehab clinic until he got himself clean. BC leaves Roy and meets with Bats outside the room, and the two discuss Roy, and whether or not he'd be able to kick the habit this time. This issue ends with Roy hallucinating that his dead and mangled daughter was standing in front of him asking him why he wasn't there for her.
What I Thought: Well, let's recap... I HATED the first issue of this mini, and I really enjoyed the second issue, so I was hoping that this issue would continue the upward climb... Unfortunately, this issue took three steps back instead... I HATED this issue!!! Right from the start, with Roy and Cheshire going from fighting to trying to screw on the floor, I knew this comic was going to be a painful ordeal, and it sure was... I just don't have anything good to say here... From the opening sequence, to Roy deciding to get back on the junk, there really wasn't anything here that I can point at and say, “I liked that!”... And then of course there was the closing scene with Roy being visited by the mangled ghoul of his poor little dead 7 year old daughter... Yeah, this was altogether terrible...
Score: 3 out of 10.
Yeah, she is... Thus proving my point that DC is run by a bunch of scumbags...
See, I liked this issue. My reasoning is because, when people are stricken by grief, they do stupid shit. Like have sex, like revert to old ways, and etc. Roy using drugs again was expected, you and I knew it was coming after the first issue, and the fight with him and Batman was handled well. It wasn't a cheesy "I'm fighting you just because!" thing, Roy was high, thought he was Prometheus, and Dick fought because he had to.
ReplyDeleteI also loved the speech by Dinah to Roy because it made sense, Roy wanted to change before, this time he doesn't. Now the Lian zombie was un called for, agree. And I hate that Roy's even in this storyline because he should have both his daughter and his arm, but Roy is gonna make mistakes. He's lost everything and he's already living life as a man who doesn't care, so he's gonna screw up so he can learn to be stronger. That aside,I thought this issue spiraling Roy even further before is hopefully redeeming showing in issue four was well done. Outside of the Lian zombie...now THAT'S how you rant!
I checked out your blog after I posted this review to see what you thought, and I was like, "A 9!?!?! REALLY!!!" While I def see what you're saying, there was just SO much I didn't like here... And I'm not looking at this from Roy's viewpoint right now, I'm talking from Cheshire's... She went to Roy's place to kill him because she felt he was responsible for letting their daughter die, and they wind up on the floor? It just didn't seem organic to me, that whole scene just felt... off(I guess)to me. It was like she was saying, "Poor Lian" one second, and then literally the next thing you know they're rolling around on the floor...
ReplyDeleteAnd then there's the drug thing... That just pisses me off to no end, because Roy had CONQUERED those demons already. He's BEEN down before(granted, not like this, but still), but he always managed to stay on the straight and narrow. I mean, this Roy Harper is just SO far away from the guy I'd read about in Green Arrow/Arsenal/Titans/Justice League of America/Outsiders. I mean, by this point, I almost wish they'd just pull the trigger and kill Roy off, 'cause he's become a weak failure of a character. And I say that as a guy who considers Roy as my favorite archer in the DCU...
Lmao, I've seen enough movies (unlike you :P) where people have been full of grief, argued then banged, so I honestly saw that coming. If anything, I'd say it was too obvious that would happen, especially with all of Roy's sex talk.
ReplyDeleteSee, I get your point, he's been through it before and conquered it. But when he went through that, all he was dealing with is being Speedy, and being on Drugs. Then he had Dinah helping him. Now, he's isolated everyone, he's dealing with losing his arm, losing his daughter, losing his friends and he can't even gain revenge because Ollie took that. So I see why Roy fell back. Because anyone would. Anyone would want an escape from a life like that, and outlet, and beating up people is only gonna help for so long.
Is this a mistake? Is this pushing Roy back? Yes, a thousand times yes, I agree but I believe that's the most real he's been in a while, because Roy is behaving like a real person would, I just hope they make him better than ever, because if he doesn't come back from it, and he's lost in the shuffle and doing nothing a year or two from now, than it was all a waste.
Ooo, good points JT! I still say that the sex thing just seemed off to me for whatever reason... I guess I didn't like that Cheshire was talking about her dead daughter one second and on top of Roy the next. Plus afterwards, even though they didn't do anything(thanks to Roy), Cheshire was like a different person. She didn't even get that sexual release that I guess she was looking for, and she was just fine with Roy then.
ReplyDeleteAs for the drug thing, all I can say is that after going through the hell he went through the first time, I just CAN'T see him going back to it again. I mean, to what end? He's already been down this path before. I mean, if he's suicidal, and that's what's spurring his recent actions, then just put a gun in your mouth and end it clean... Why bother getting back on the smack again? I'd accept it WAY more if Roy had NEVER been a heroin addict before, and turned to it for the first time now, but he KNOWS it's not a permanent fix. He KNOWS he'll come down from the high and his life will STILL be in the crapper. Like I said, it just seems like he's taking the cowards way out, and that bothers me, because I thought of Roy as a MUCH stronger character, expecially after kicking the habit cold turkey before.
Well thank ya, and I will agree, I think the reason Cheshire calmed down is because, I mean she is a killer, she is evil but we know she's a woman and even if she didn't raise Lian that's still her daughter. I think as much as she wanted to hut Roy she wanted to grieve with him more. Because if anyone knows how she feels, it'd be him because he lost the same. I think that's why she just...calmed down, but I agree she was like a totally different person. And Roy... I don't care how bad you feel, I've seen Cheshire... you have NO excuse for not being able to hit that. Lol
ReplyDeleteI love your points because they make sense, but they make sense to US. They don't make sense to the former Junkie who lost it all. We're thinking of the future. Roy isn't. He even says, he's worried about the now. He needs a fix now, he needs to do what makes him feel good now. We even see it, he tries sex, which doesn't work. He fights crime, doesn't work, so all Roy has left to help him "feel good" is drugs, so he does it.
Ahh, and with that last paragraph, I think you hit the nail right on the head perfectly JT. Looking at the situation from the veiwpoint of a weak/failure sort of person who is desperate for ANYTHING to help them feel better, then I guess turning to drugs WOULD make sense. But that's my whole gripe, and the reason why I just can't get into this mini anymore, after everything is said and done, then what? I mean, conventional wisdom says that Roy will beat the habit, fight off his demons and this mini will end on a high note... But realistically, since I guess that's the direction we're going with this mini, things should end with Roy NEVER getting over his loss, and in the end he should prob be found lying dead in the gutter somewhere. This mini has proven that Roy CAN'T deal with the duel loss of his arm and daughter, so what could possibly change his point of view to wrap this up with a pretty little bow? I mean, for me at least, this mini-series has broken Roy beyond repair. How can I look at him as a hero after this is all over with? Life kicked him in the gut and he responded by reverting back to the behavior of his teenage self. That's not a hero to me, that's a pathetic loser.
ReplyDeleteOh, and btw JT, thank you for engaging in a well thought out discussion here, 'cause I'm def enjoying it. Even though we disagree on this comic, and I doubt either one of us will be able to sway the other, it's nice to see exactly what you liked about this book... You know, unlike SOME people, who would rather say, "Well, your score is wrong, because this was a good comic..."
ReplyDeleteYou're right dude, I'll agree with you. No matter what happens this is always gonna be the low point of his life, but doesn't every great hero have one lowest point? Batman, Wonder Woman, Superman, Green Lantern (Hal), all of them hit the bottom of the barrel. I'm not advocating this as the best Mini because things have been low, Roy should've hit the bottom an issue ago and had two issues to redeem himself or at least try. But I agree, Roy hasn't shown to be a true hero, he's been shown to be human. And humans make mistakes.
ReplyDeleteRealistically, Roy's problems shouldn't and hopefully won't end after this next issue, but sending Roy to the bottom and building him up is a hell of a lot more interesting than sitting on the sidelines like Wally, I think we can both agree there.
Lmao, no problem Buddy. I was just saying to Falisha how much I'm enjoying this discussion because we're both making good points, I feel like we're both on one side of the casual fanboy war but we're debating with well thought out answers, which is always fun.
ReplyDeleteHmm, hmm, hmm... I'm not so sure I DO agree with that last point! There's a part of me(a very big part!)that would have prefered it if Roy was doing nothing, instead of being dragged through the mud like this. If Roy had just dropped off the face of the Earth, with his arm intact, with Lian, as opposed to this, I'd have been much happier...
ReplyDeleteAll of those other heroes you mentioned(even Hal, since in Geoff Johns land he was possessed by Parallax, and not responsible for his evil deeds)NEVER fell this far or hard. You'd never see WW snorting coke after breaking someone's neck, or Batman shooting up after losing Jason Todd. Instead, Bats picked himself up(eventually)and kept right on going. That's what you do when faced with hardships, and that's why I'm so disappointed with Roy's actions in this mini.
I def understand the arguement that Roy's current actions make him more human, but he was ALREADY one of the more "human" comic book characters out there(former junkie, super-hero with no powers, single father). I still argue that this mini is doing more to hurt Roy's character then to help it, and that no matter how it ends, it's going to be a major disappointment. And you're 100% correct in saying that this SHOULD have been the issue where Roy begins to get it together and pull himself back up, now I feel like he's dug himself such a deep hole that he'll never be able to get out. That's going to have to do it for me tonight. I'll be looking forward to seeing your retort tomorrow night JT.
Lmao @ him falling off the face of the earth with Lian and his arm intact. The idea of Wonder Woman snorting coke was hilarious to me...
ReplyDeleteTo be honest X, I don't have a reply because you're right. Roy was one of the more human people before, and as much as I wanna try to defend him all I can say is the guy makes mistakes. I doubt even JT Krul or Robinson could win this debate.
But I will say, I enjoyed this comic, I went in with low expectations from the first issue and I liked the last two issues a lot, you didn't and I see why because you explained it, as I'm sure you see why I liked it. All I'll say is, I wish this story hadn't happened, I wish Roy was still a single father with two arms, and I'd have loved to read a series about him more before this than I do after, but what;s done is done so I guess we can either hope for Superboy Prime to punch a wall, rip off his other arm, or just hope for the best. I'm gonna go with choice number one, and choice three to a lesser extent.
She'd prob do it right off her bracers too!
ReplyDeleteRobin: "Holy illicit narcotics Batman, what's Wonder Woman doing?!?"
Batman: "Well chum, she seems to be riding the white pony..."
*cue 1960's Batman dance music*
What the HELL was that... Anyway, I'll go into the next issue hoping for the best, but DEFINITELY expecting the worst... Oh, and for a completely different opinion, I was talking to my sister(who's probably a bigger fan of Roy's then me and you COMBINED!)and she told me that she found the whole comic funny, and that she burst out laughing when Roy was cradling the dead cat in the alley because it was all so ridiculous! So yeah, it seems that everybody I know def have some differing opinions on THIS comic!
I'll also go with choice number one! Hell, it worked last time, didn't it! :P
Lmao... that was hilarious. The sad thing is I could see that happening, just replace WW with Catwoman.
ReplyDeleteThe reason I find that so shocking is because you said your sister never laughs.... so I picture it like Batman at the end of The Killing Joke. Also, I chuckled too when I saw that dead cat, just because he was cradling a dead cat....lol
Well someone get Prime in here and tell him to punch some damn walls!!!
Wow, if that scene played out in some issue of a 1960's Batman comic, I'd have to say that they were doing stuff way ahead of their time!! "The Fall and Rise of Catwoman: A Love Story... Writer: Grant Morrison."
ReplyDeleteThat's what I thought! She told me she laughed out loud while reading that comic, and I was like, during WHICH scene!?! I mean, I was seething by that point of the comic, so the fact that she thought it was funny kind of blew my mind!
Yeah, where's Prime to start punching a few holes in reality all ready?! Maybe while he's doing that he can find the good Geoff Johns again too...
Lmao! Good one X, I love how you mixed like three different jokes into that. And of course with Artwork by Frank Miller.
ReplyDeleteMan you're out voted haha, Falisha read my first three issues today, and she liked ALL three. Even the first, like she said is she rated ALL three issues they'd get a cumulative 8.5 rating.
He's locked in a closet somewhere, and Yost is wearing a Geoff Johns mask...
Ah of course, how could I forget the artwork by Frank Miller!! You know what the sad thing is? If that comic came out with that creative team, I bet it would sell like CRAZY! It would be BRUTAL, but it would be raking in the dough!
ReplyDeleteBah, I still say it's rubbish! I'm as stubborn as a mule, and when I dig my heels in about something, my mind CAN NOT be changed(even if I KNOW I'm wrong!).
HA!!! Well then THAT explains EVERYTHING!!! :D
Definitely, It'd be awful and STILL sell a ton of issues, which is more mind boggling than anything.
ReplyDeleteHm... looks like you're closer to the Arl than ya thought! *Runs* lmao
Lol yeah, that makes so much sense.
Geez, talk about a low blow! Now my feelings are hurt!!!
ReplyDeleteLol I'm sorry :P
ReplyDeleteOld JT: No, I mean Jozeph!!!! WITH A Z!!! Lol