AvX: VS #1(of 6):
Summary: Well hot damn, this comic was EXACTLY what I was hoping it would be! One issue, two fights that took place during AvX #2. The first one gives us Iron Man vs Magneto. Now in theory, Mags should trounce Iron Man, right? WRONG! Iron Man has been able to counter Magneto's powers since the 1980's(yeah, for THAT long!), and this battle proves no different. Eventually, the two have to resort to a fistfight high above Crazy Mutie Island(since power-wise they were too evenly matched). Mags becomes distracted when he senses the Phoenix Force eat a planet(I'm not sure how, but whatever), and Iron Man brings the hammer down, defeating Magneto... Hell yeah baby!! Avengers 1, Brotherhood of Evil Mutants 0! Next up we have Namor taking on the Thing. The two combatants wind up plummeting into the water and Thing manages to pin Namor to the bottom of the sea with the teeth of a giant sea creature, defeating Namor yet again... Yeah, the FF owns the fish-man. That ends this issue with the Avengers 2, the X-Men nil.
Thoughts: Well hell, I LOVED this comic book! The Iron Man/Magneto battle was PERFECT. Jason Aaron had those two characters DOWN. The banter, the dialogue, the fight itself, I couldn't have dreamed up a better fight between those two. And yes, it ended the way I'd have expected it to end. Tony Stark is just too smart to be defeated by Magneto, and his massive intellect was the x-factor in that battle. On the other hand, while I enjoyed the fight between the Thing and Namor, I was fully expecting Namor to win... Yeah, the Thing is strong and all, but he was fighting Namor in Namor's element... On the land? Thing wins, hands down. But under the sea? I'd have expected Namor to pull out the win. So yeah, I can't say I agreed with that outcome. Regardless though, this issue, and this mini-series? It's an absolutely BRILLIANT idea! Seriously, I don't know why Marvel or DC didn't think of something like this before. Oh, and before I forget, they also had awesome little fun facts that were in caption boxes during the battles... Yes, they thought of EVERYTHING! I only have good things to say about this one, and you know what THAT means...
Score: 10 out of 10. Yep, it's the second perfect score of 2012! Huzzah!!!
Stark resilient all the way, baby!!!
Just pointing out that Magneto can sense Electro Magnetic fields.. he could have felt the magnetic field of a planet vanish. Or literally felt the approach of the Pheonix's field enveloping that of a planets.. He was able to defeat Proteus because Proteus's natural form is basically just a very complex magnetic field.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, I def get that about Mags, Rage. But the Phoenix is still so far away(if it's destroying entire planets, it's WAYS off still!), I was kind of surprised that Mags was able to sense that. I mean he'd be feeling something from WAY outside our star system, which is kind of a stretch, even for Mags! But then when it comes to Magneto and the stuff he's done, I def wouldn't argue too much that he COULDN'T sense it. Hell, he found Kitty in that giant space bullet, so who knows how far his "reach" extends.
ReplyDeleteCouldn't agree with you more on this one. I had a big smile on my face as I read it, because two of my favorite characters came out on top in the end. I loved how Iron Man and Magneto kept upping the ante on each other, and they took the fight to a level I honestly wasn't expecting! THIS is the Iron Man I've been waiting for... powerful, dangerous, and with a bit of snark. I read his lines in Robert Downey Jr.'s voice, and it made the fight even better. Have to give Magneto some respect, too. He probably would have come out on top, but Fnow he sees just how futile this battle really is. Not sure exactly how he can sense something so far away, but this may be the first crack in Cyclops' Brotherhood.
ReplyDeleteWatching Ben come out on top was great. For too long, he's been Marvel's biggest whipping boy, and I thought that would continue in this fight. I know, from way back, that Ben has performed pretty damn well against Namor, but those days seem long past. It was good to see him reclaim a bit of glory, even though he didn't put Namor out of the fight. Still, very satisfying.
I've been spending a LOT of time needling X-Fans who predicted a bunch of squash matches in this war. It's great to see Earth's Mightiest Heroes taking it to the Extinction Team, although I'm sure Cyclops has some tricks up his sleeve.
A stretch? From Marvel? Nooo. Lol.
ReplyDeleteBut yeah, reading this, im wishing i had picked this up. Guess i wanted to see your review :p
HA! Yeah, my comic shop is a full-blown X-supporter, RM, so I spent like an hour there after work yesterday just antagonizing them! :P That's the thing with the Magneto/Iron Man fight... It WAS completely evenly matched right up until the end, when Mags got distracted. So yeah, Tony did win(as I would have expected) but Mags DID have an excuse. And like you said, Mags also seemed to realize that maybe Scott wasn't in the right here due to the Phoenix's actions, which could lead to the unlikely event of MAGNETO joining with the Avengers! Namor and Thing though... That one took me by surprise. I honestly thought Namor would have the advantage over Thing underwater. Not that I'm complaining about the Avengers going up 2-0! :D
ReplyDeleteWell thanks, Rage! Hopefully you do pick this issue up and enjoy it as much as RM and I did.
Are you kidding ? Ironman is tech smart not leader smart always a number two in a group ask cap! Ok let's just play in the ballpark marvel has built ... Mags great leader one of the most powerful men in marvel comics can he move the earth ? Yes .. Can he take caps shield and squish it around ironmans head yup could he rip wolverines metal claws out and throw them into ironman yup could he take the tower he squished ironman with make a ball around ironman and throw him into the sun yup could he well you get the point . This is for ppl that like the movies plain and simple the thing winning is a perfect example ppl like the thing hell I love the thing but we all know he can't be namor in the water I loved how they had him fall into a underwater air vent lmao one in a million there... I like ironman to looooooved the movies but guys please lets hold these writers to their past mags to smart to powerful and to ruthless for a second in charge tech only smart man that Norma
ReplyDeleteI'm so glad I convinced Lisha to pick this up! I was broke lol, but man I loved this comic. The fights were great, as were the fun facts, and I loved seeing Stark and Mags go back and forth. I'm also surprised Namor lost a fight underwater but what can ya do?
ReplyDeleteThe fight would have turned out like Anon said, IF Mags had wanted Ironman dead.. he didn't.. Magneto hasn't really had the need/desire to kill anyone lately.. and supposedly, sense he got his powers back, he's stronger.. but yeah, if Iron-Man wanted Magneto dead, he probably could have. This would have been a short fight if one wanted the other dead...
ReplyDeleteAgain, I have to respectfully disagree, Anon. I grew up as ONLY an X-fan, and became an Avengers fan later on in life. So while I hate the way the X-Men have turned out since M-Day ruined them, I am first and foremost an X-fan. With that said, I just don't see Mags defeating Iron Man. I just don't. I may pull out the West Coast Avengers books I keep mentioning, because, WAY back in the 80's, Iron Man was able to negate Mags powers against him, and that was like 25 years ago! I thought this fight in this comic was smartly written, as the battle played out like a huge chess match until one of the two lost their concentration and was checkmated. It could have went either way, but Iron Man won, and that's who I'd have picked. I think Aaron DID hold Mags and IM to their past encounters very well. And this is coming from somebody who STILL hasn't seen the Iron Man movies! :D I guess we'll have to agree to disagree with regards to IM/Mags.
ReplyDeleteYeah, the Namor thing was flat out bizarre, JT... You'd think Thing would have been slowed underwater, while Namor could just swim circles around him. I didn't get that battle at all. Def glad you enjoyed this one though. It was def one of my favorite books of the year, as evident by the fact that it was only the SECOND perfect book out of the gazillion I've reviewed so far in 2012!
I think any true X-Fan would disagree with the outcomes of these fights. Come on now, MAgneto single -handedly defeated the X-men on several occasions and you're telling me that Iron man (being able to defeat Magneto) can take them on as well? Definitely does not add up.
ReplyDeleteFirst Rage ,,The xman75' ..thanks for the friendly debate first off =}...ok this isn't a ruthless equation I only used extreme points but lots of non lethal examples like take caps shield meld it around ironmans hands or attach it around the necks or two or more ppl shoot why wouldn't mags take away caps shield first and foremost and use it to his advantage this is a man of a strategy not a hulk power type mind set think of ultimatum who is the guy everyone have to team up to take out or AoA mags takes out plastic sentinels by the dozen and leads the last hope for all mutants but in this universe ironman can solo him .....realy...I mean realy.... This guy is a chess type mind set tony is not he is a follower for sure ,,impulsive as well in. Mind game mags has done soooo much in the past this to me don't add up .. Ironman could never take on all the xman solo but how many times has mags
ReplyDeleteDagnabbit....usually I comment just only Nate Grey, but can't help but get in on the Magneto/Ironman commentary...it's just too HUGE! Sorry X75, but I have to side with Anon and Rage on this one. If Mags wanted to kill Ironman, it would have easily been done, despite all of Tony's intelligent tactics and counters. Like it was stated, because Tony is so smart regarding his Ironman gear, Mags most definitely would have resorted to fighting dirty and if provocked enough to KILL...Mags would have first stripped Captain America of his glorious shield and wrapped both of Ironman's hands and possibly feet as well with it. The result....no blasters and no/hazardous flight....leaving just a man in an armored suit. No threat at all!...for Magneto anyway. From there and secondly, if nothing else would do, he would have stripped Logan of a claw or up to six and pierced Tony right straight through in his heart tech gizmo which keeps him alive or straight to the throat beheading the smart Tony. Either way....Tony dead! Haha!..Nuff said! I just don't think there is anything that anyone can come back against this reasoning and logic, but I guess people will...TRY. Lol....maybe Stark is fast enough to dodge each and every attempt at Mags speed and control over magnetism and metals (Cap's shield/Wolverine's claws)....Good luck with that Tony!....if Tony Stark can pull that off, he most deifinitely is the most cleverist person I know in all of comics. If all else, it would be one heck of a chase...Mags being the cat and Ironman the mouse. Lol
ReplyDeleteIn truth, the only way Ironman could survive if Mags wanted to kill him is to either take away outside threats like Cap's shield or Logan's adamantium claws or somehow negate or depower Mags mutant ability as in all of it. So Tony, you better have a suit that can depower Mags and/or fight waaaaaay away from people like Captain America and/or Wolverine.
ReplyDeleteOkay, I'm definitely up for a friendly debate here, so I'm going to make a few points and then let the fire burn from there! :D Back in Avengers West Coast #56, 57, 60, Magneto took on the WCA. One of them was Iron Man. It was stated there that Mags can't affect Iron Man's armor. SO like in this issue, it's a proven fact that Mags can't manipulate Tony's suit. On top of that, Tony has a sophisticated radar system in his suit that alerts him to threats, and moves at supersonic speed, so his suit enhanced reflexes are WAY better than Mags normal reflexes, and as such, Tony should be able to avoid anything Mags tosses his way, be it shields or chunks of Adamantium.
ReplyDeleteNext up is the "If Mags wanted to kill Tony" argument. Personality-wise Mags has fluctuated between sane foe to out of his mind ranting super-villain. Out of all the times he's butted heads with the various heroes of the Marvel Universe how many times has he killed/maimed anybody? By my count, two(Wolverine and Jean) and one was retconned, so actually only one, Wolvie. I can't see Mags deciding to kill IM, and if he did, he'd probably fight irrationally and be defeated, as he's been so many times before.
As for the "Tony Stark is no type of leader" thing, really!? Now I get people hate Tony and all from Civil War(I hated him too until Matt Fraction's recent stellar work fixed Tony for me), but Tony LED the pro-registration forces! Not only that, but he's led the Avengers and been chairman on numerous occasions. If anything, Tony's success-rate when facing off against heroes is WAY better than Mags! :P Lastly, this was a one on one battle. That meant no Cap's shield, no Wolvie's claws, none of that, just Mags and Tony. I'm kind of surprised that fellow fans think so little of Tony actually... Is it the movies? Like I said, I've never watched them, is Tony an idiot in them(and I mean that seriously, I have no reference with regards to the movies)? In the comics, according to Marvel's official stats, Tony is a 6 in intelligence, which is a super-genius. He's easily one of the smartest characters in the Marvel U(behind Reed, Doom, and possibly Pym), he knew he was heading to Utopia, and he knew Magneto was going to be there, and would probably target him. With all that said, I just don't see how he could possibly lose!
I would like to point out that what I had MEANT to say was that, had Ironman or Magneto really had the intention of killing the other, their fight would have been over pretty quickly. They're both heavy-hitters, and what ever armor they may have won't protect either's quite fragile bodies, from the full potential of the other. Ironman probably has something that could fry magneto before he let out a breath, and Magneto could probably do Something like toss an island at him, faster than light speed... He brought a giant flying bullet back to earth, which was lightyears away, back to earth, in a fairly short time, considering that thing had been flying for years (probably only 1 or two, when considering the Marvel timeline..)
ReplyDeleteAgain, I'm just saying they both have the potential to kill the other, but as seen before, fights tend to drag out when you want the other person alive.. This fight could have very well ended with both dead.. It's just that type of pairing..
Def can't disagree with that. If it was a Secret Wars, to the death, type battle where the Beyonder(or somebody) could bring the dead character back, then yeah, the battle could have gone WAY differently. Same if it was the X-Men who went to Avengers Mansion and attacked the Avengers with little notice. An ill-prepared Iron Man vs a fully prepared Mags may have gone in a totally different direction. But for this battle, at this time, at that location and with that set of circumstances? It's hard to bet against Iron Man. Introducing some variables, like a different location or a different set of rules? Whole other ballgame, no doubt.
ReplyDeleteOk X75 you seem to want to ignore some of my points and create a box to play out this fight A) their on a beach with several ppl all around not a far off ring where mags can't reach caps or wolvies metals as you agree to above he can find a metal object in far off space but ppl spread out on a beach is to far? B) you also did not address the leadership skills correctly IMO cause tony was leader of a small time period of civil and takes caps place when he goes away for brief time periods time and that compares to mags running the brotherhood for 10 years + and in 2 different universe,s AoA , and ultimate always a major leader no matter what universe and as I recall tony struggles with the weight of leadership and turn to the bottle for relief even in fear he wants to run into a bottle to deal with the stress C) you keep referring to the west coast fight but you seem to think only tony can grow from that fight yet we all have seen mags grows from simply lifting cars to chunk at ppl to controlling the iron in their blood he has grown in his mastery over his skills as well D) you say he can dodge basically anything.....realy.. How many comics have you read where he does get hit lol I mean one of Tony's traits to me is to take a beating and even in this fight he can't doge mags punches but yet he will dodge 6 flying claws? This realy makes no sense to me . He is not spiderman when it comes to evading IMO not even close so yes he would get hit E) ok let's look at the tech side of this you say tony makes tech that is just so good mags ain't able to deal with it well. You said your an x fan lemme ask this how does forge of the xman stack up in that rating system? How many times has forge been part of a "team" taking on mags .F) You also avoided the question can ironman fight all the xmen ? As mags has many many times how can ironman possibly do that ? ...G ) " wow I went to G" this isn't a matter of who I like . Realy ...I love ironman I respect mags.. But I think you have to much of a homers mind set about this like someone who loves their football team but can't see the team their about to play is gonna kill em no offense here it's love that drives it and I consider any marvel fan a friend of mine! ...H) you mention a scale for Tony's intell I bet with mags creation of cerbro and other stuff he's not that much lower now what if we apply that scale to leadership , raw power, willpower "tony should hide at the mention of willpower aka the whino of marvel comics" your cherry picking by just mentioning the intell I) this is the last letter I promise lol this book can be judged by both fights meaning why did the thing win ? I know why and so does anyone that has read comics for awhile ppl like the thing bottom line noooow here is the real question why would the writers have the thing beat namor in the water?? Cause they wanna fly in the face of ppl that would object to this cause they know most of us would say in the water thing would lose it is arrogance on the part of the writer does this apply to the ironman fight YES right off it does .why do they pick out mags for ironman to fight mags because it flys into the face of all the ppl that thought ironman should avoid mags in this fight same mind set! Thing had to get a break by getting thrown into a air vent to win much like tony got a break by the mental lapse in space by mags! Whew ! I am a wind bag! I am loving the debate NO hard feelings!!!! I await your rebuttle Sir !
ReplyDelete"Tony has a sophisticated radar system in his suit that alerts him to threats, and moves at supersonic speed, so his suit enhanced reflexes are WAY better than Mags normal reflexes, and as such, Tony should be able to avoid anything Mags tosses his way, be it shields or chunks of Adamantium."
ReplyDeleteIs not like he avoided that 170 tons of metal Mags toosed into him, the could have ended in that moment if Mags wanted.(just compresing the metal arround IM so he couldn't use his armor in any way
And using his magnetism to disrup IM comunications so IM could't use satelites or some misile from a long distance.
DeleteLike I said, a great display of cat and mouse X! Ha! Man this debate is SERIOUS! LOL! THIS IS JUST TOO FUNNY! I putting my two cents in seems to have sparked chaos. Question: if Stark's armor suit can evade each and every attack that a person of Magneto's calibre can bring, then why is IM always getting hit by the lesser??! Come on! I do recall that Mags did punch IM a few. If IM was that fast, I'm pretty sure a punch from Mags that is quite slower than his magnetic attacks wouldn't have landed. Second, the fight took place around many heroes and mutants, soooooooo....despite that it was a one on one fight, which the comic delivered, if Mags played dirty due to wanting to KILL combined with all things at his disposal...he would have shorted out all satellite instruments which would more or less take away IM's reflex artillary and sooo much more, disabled the man inside the suit by controlling the iron in Tony's blood, shorted out or crushed Stark's heart peace either internally or externally with a sharp piece of metal, crush/suffocate IM with mountainous metal similar to a boa constrictor but on all circumferencal side. Let's not even talk about using Cap's shield or Wolvie's SIX adamantium claws going in different directions. Have fun evading ALL OF THAT Tony! Lol. Man I love this debate mess....cat and mouse anyone?! Haha!...love it.
ReplyDeleteOh yeah, one more thing as regards why Mags never really has killed anyone. Well in most cases (to my knowledge), Mags only concern has been with the mutant race and how they should dominate the human populous. The only team that has stood in his way has been primarily Xavier's Men. But they are all mutants, the very ones he desires to have, protect, and see eye to eye with his ideologies. He doesn't in truth want to harm them, instead wants them to aid him in the domination of those who won't accept a co-existence (the human general populous who act prejudicely towards mutants, but not all humans....though at times it may have appeared that way). That is the true reason why he refrained from attempting to kill dang near all the members of the X-men. Mags never had too much of a dealing with the heroes such as the Avenger....seldom at best. I don't believe his squabble was with them hardly if at all.
ReplyDeleteI guess I missed one! As to will mags kill ....one word will settle this... Ultimatum ..
ReplyDeleteWell, I think this is one of those cases where we'll have to agree to disagree. I know I'm not budging on my stance that Tony could defeat Mags, and it's pretty obvious most of you guys aren't budging from yours! :D I still stand by my conviction that Tony could/would/should beat Mags 99 times out of 100 though. I tried my hardest, but failed. Sorry, Marvel! :P
ReplyDeleteIf it's any consolation for you X-backers, the cover to the next issue has Cap vs Gambit(really?) and Jugger-Colossus vs Spidey. That second fight HAS to produce a win for the X-Men!
Uh....Cap will destroy Gambit...REALLY!
ReplyDeleteBlah X75 , you didn't even try to a rebuttle to alot of good points I can agree to disagree but can't help to feel alittle like you took your ball and went home rather then explain theses tough question laying at you feet cause you had no good explanation....I guess from my part a basically all the other post here about this fight ....in the RING of what we call the FANS ironman should lose same with the thing ...marvel 0 fans 2 .......would still, love to hear ya explain away my points ! You should let your friends at your store read this thread. Hehe
ReplyDeleteHA! But there's no sense beating a dead horse, Anon! :D I gave my points on IM, you gave yours on Mags. I know there's nothing you can say that'll change my mind, and I'm sure you feel the same way. We'd just keep running around in circles and arguing the same points over and over again. The guys at the shop I go to would LOVE this thread! They are HUGE X-fans! Totally on the side of the X-Men, to the point where I doubt they think one of the most powerful Avengers *coughIronMancough* couldn't defeat the weakest of the X-Men!
ReplyDeleteHA!!! I hope you're joking RadT! 'Cause if Gambit beats Cap? I'll literally EAT that next issue! LITERALLY!!! :D
Nope, no joke. I strongly feel Gambit doesn't stand a chance again someone like Captain America. I don't think Gambit would stand a chance against Cyclops either, so how could he beat Cap unless allowed to be defeated. But it appears that all Avengers of the movie are destined to win, so there shouldn't be a surprise ending unless Marvel is purposely screwing with everyones heads.
ReplyDeleteBut if Gambit somehow impossibly wins against Cap A....shall I say bon apetite X!
ReplyDeleteIf a win is to occur with the X-men, I'd say it would be Jugger-Colossus over Spidey although that may be a stretch with Spidey's natural speed, smarts, and spider-sense. I believe JC will be too slow...but if he lands a devastating punch!...it could very well be lights out for ole' Pete.
ReplyDeleteOh, I TOTALLY misread what you typed, RadT! I thought you said that Gambit WOULD beat Cap... Yeah, there's ZERO chance of Gambit defeating Cap... I can't even imagine a scenario where it would even be possible... Idk, Cap loses his shield, goes blind and loses a leg? Then maybe, MAYBE Gambit has a shot. Other than that? Not gonna happen. Although, it is weird that Marvel is promoting that battle... I mean who really expects Gambit to defeat Cap... I hope they don't pull something funny......
ReplyDeleteAnd agreed with Jugger-Colo. I say he gives the X-side their first win. Colo is a better fighter than Juggy was(who Spidey DID defeat in the past), is probably stronger than Juggy, can just stand there clapping at Spidey to knock him around(he doesn't even really need to land a solid punch!) and on top of that, how does Spidey hurt him? Sure, it's Spidey, so there's always a chance he wins, but I'd say I'm like 75%-80% sure Jugger-Colo takes that battle.
I am just trying to figure out why Gambit is even doing there. Last we saw he was in Westchester. Anyways, if Gambit goes four horsemen he might have a chance (but probably not).
ReplyDeleteUncanny X-men had Red Hulk verses Jugger-Colo. I thought the ending was alright, but since neither Colossus or Juggernaut could beat Hulk while Red Hulk beat Thor with his own hammer I thought Jugger-Colo shouldn't stand a chance.
There is a constant theme here as I wrote before with these match ups .. The writer is wanting to fly in our faces with match ups that make no sense .. Mags vs ironman,,,,spiderman vs jugscol,,,,gambit vs cap,,,,, thing vs namor in the water,,, but ppl that love their guy like ironman won't care long as their guy wins ....sigh...we should demand better and not be sheep that just say well they have him winning sooo it's a win yay ,,,,,,,sigh,,,,maybe after a few more issues ppl will start to think more about this or when we keep saying to each other why this match up?? Cause it's not strategy it's not fair wins it is a writer that thinks to much of himself and uses cheap outs like underwater air vents and mind lapse to get the results he wants and we just spoon it up ....I just wanted some what of strategy in this fight ...I mean guys come one didn't you want to see jug vs red hulk or the thing,,,or cap vs cyc or deadpool vs spiderman and these would've been strategic and the ones we wanted to see but we aren't getting any of this ,,, am I the only one seeing this ?
ReplyDeleteCan't help myself but to comment again on this . Please try to be open mined about this... This the xmens island their down to 200 ppl a whole crap Ton of supers show up wanting a minor , a minor that some xmen died to get and keep safe and of all ppl cap is talking about killing possibly OMG ,,,but he'll get bent out if supers have register ? Think about the disconnect here... What if it were Americans and caps island and mutants show up to take a minor that stark died to get what would he do? Why is cap being so fascist yes I used that word for cap but please think about how cap is going about this . He don't say I know you lost ppl getting this girl and you guys know more about this then anyone and with muntants on the edge of extinction this gotta be a touchy subject but we would like to come here and monitor her with you. And assist in anyway we can I realy believe that's the real cap talking there. I bet anything their gonna try to justify caps motives by him being right but that doesn't make it ok IMO bad writing y'all ,,,why cause very outta char for cap ! The writer must've only read the ultimate cap comics IMO ..kill a minor ? ...Cap? ...Realy? ...now the fight ! We see two team go to war basically . In most group on group fight be avengers or the xmen . I would say its fair to say strength on strength speed on speed leader vs leader this is the M O of all group battles in comics .....except... If for strategy they change it up but for good reason .. Now we have IMO the two best leaders of all time neither is doing much but arguing with each other is that what great leaders do in the middle of battle? And the plan was have thing fight namor underwater? They knew it was a beach which means water and cap was like yo rock guy that will sink like a stone in the sea with no breathing tech go fight the king of the sea. That should've been ironmans fight IMO to send the thing as a great leader well says your not a great leader,,,the give ironman the orders to fight mags even if you think ironman can win is this the great planning of cap? Now we are seeing cap and gambit the most notable leader going against the most free willed xmen,,,why?,,,cap thinks by taking out gambit gives them a huge advantage? I think taking out cyc is IMO but I bet most of you agree with taking out cyc plan..I would try to predict this fight but with air vent and mind lapses being used to get win I could see more of stuff like that happening,,,,spidey vs juggavich....strategy wise makes no sense when you have the red hulk thing cage ...but I would agree can never count spidey out ...folks what we have here is a writer that thinks he is a Picasso meaning he can break all the rules to engagement by groups have the fights all be wtf are they thinking matching these guys up and have small unbelievable quirks win the day for em and we are like whoohoo ! By doing this the writer has made both cyc and cap look like they should be running the young avengers or xfactor.....ask yourself do I like these match ups? Do I realy agree with how their playing out? Is this what I expected/ wanted to see? And if you find yourself confused or just not sure or you just flat out disagree with it then that's bad writing ,,, think about when you read a novel ..if your lost or confused and don't agree with the char decisions how their motivation for doing what their doing seems fasict or wrong that's BAD WRITING .......I only speak for myself but. Am looking for like minded ppl ! ....I typically sign off with anonymous but from now on I will be ultimatum 2012.
ReplyDeleteRight, Jermox!? What is Gambit doing there?? I guess that goes to show you that the mutants in Westchester will be siding with Lord Summers and company. Maybe Wolvie will switch sides soon? Or maybe his minions will abandon him? The next issue(or two) should be interesting.
ReplyDeleteI read that issue of Uncanny last night myself! It was pretty good. I hated the last page, but that battle was pretty awesome. I liked the way it ended too, Jugger-Colo probably would have won, but gave himself up for the greater good of Crazy Mutie Island. I don't know when Jugger-Colo became a demon, but whatever, I guess...
Eh, I'm not buying it.
ReplyDelete1) I could very well be mistaken but I don't remember Cap talking about killing Hope.
2) You are omitting the fact that a world destroying force is going to possess said minor and that Cyclops is welcoming it. That sounds pretty cultish in my book and sounds like a case for child protective services. It could be argue that it is in Hope's best interest to pull her out of crazy mutant island.
3) If this wasn't their mutant messiah they would be more than willing to stop it. If this were Proteus coming back then Cyclops would do everything he could to stop innocents from being harmed. Instead, he is willing to gamble the earth that the phoenix won't destroy the planet like it did to the last twenty or so it came across. That is why I like Magneto coming to common sense in this issue.
"You are omitting the fact that a world destroying force is going to possess said minor and that Cyclops is welcoming it." That's a great point actually, Jermox... One I didn't really think too hard about. I mean if a kid was in a household where their stepfather was going to allow potential harm to befall them, shouldn't the authorities step in? Sure, Cap isn't operating on American soil, but he's a member of the EARTH'S Mightiest Heroes, not AMERICA'S Mightiest Heroes. He's doing what he thinks is in the best interest of the planet, not a single country. Great Avengers leaning points all the way around, Jermox, all of which are amongst the reasons I'm proudly backing the Avengers. I really don't have anything else to say, you said everything I'd have said but better!
ReplyDeleteOk first re read a vs x in the white house briefing room to get your awnser about killing hope ,,, its said that why because if thier is no host nothing will come .. A cult huh well cyc defiantly is way to intense but you forget the one power the Phoenix has that he is betting on that is to make everything to the way it was ...read xmen ultimates for this showing of power ...it could restore all mutants ...your just assuming that it is going to destroy everything same as cap pessimistic or optimistic both have good points here agreed ...as for cap beng earths mightiest here and can go any where to any land and take anyone into custody I think alot of country's having a guy in all red white and blue showing for one of their citizens is not gonna. Fly like you'd think.. Yup xmen jump to save the day millions of times and still would .. See that's the thing right there are the cyc xmen still heroes would they still, fight for earth ect ect and have for 30 years cyc has been a solid hero but sometimes leaders make tough calls and he be levies in Phoenix as a force of good for mutants they are on the edge of extinction and thinks the Phoenix will restore what was wrongfully taken from them... I noticed you didnt awnser my questions a common thing on this thread I am noticing .... Why does cap HAVE to take her? Why cant they work together??? Don't the xmen have the most experience with the Phoenix ??? To say cap should just take the girl cause thier a cult or protective services should come in .......realy?.....what do they do to deserve that? How many faiths in the world believe in somthing whether some believe Jesus is coming or the Muslim end world senecio regardless like the Dali lama is kinda like hope so we should take all thier children away this isn't a world where germany won the war that is incredibly fascist!!! The Phoenix is a force of nature If it is killing planets it is the same thing as if galactus is eating them ya dig ? To bad so sad for other planets when galactus shows up ..we don't run to save em ... We're trying to save ourselves think of it this way what if the Phoenix gets here and hope is the bottle to which it will, be held and without her we all, die that could be the case! In thi battle I back no one! I in my heart would not abduct minors I would ask to set up a base there with them and ask them every question I could about the phoenix to learn as much as I could I would ask them could we take her off planet to allow a safer merge if that is what it is to happen in case cycs wrong this gung ho mentality is ultimate cap IMO my way or the highway shows a lack of respect for allllllll the times cyc has saved the world and still does . If cyc is ' lord summers" the wft is wolverine? If cyc is the gun wolverines the bullet XFORCE ... Wolverine already was gonna kill the minor ... As I said they aren't looking for non violent solutions like take her off planet or disscussing what to do they are being fascist ..for those that don't know the definition of that word exactly look it up and you'll see that is the case!
ReplyDeleteBtw in the ultimates first run about giant men and such cap will not go into china cause he said he has no authority nd was not asked to assist ... X75 do you read the ultimate story lines ? You claimed earlier mags had killed no one yet when I told you the story line in which he killed plenty yet no response . Well here's another ... All I was saying about the Phoenix is could be bad could be good no ONE knows for sure my only point is real heroes find or at least pursue the smartest solution from what I'm reading is avengers are being pessimistic and gung ho .. Wolverine is already to kill and doesnt even know if that's the best course and cap is not even remotely trying to reason this thing out ... This girl has done nothing but been hunted and tried to be killed f
ReplyDeleteSince she was a baby I can't believe no one feel even a bit sorry for her and she's just a kid maybe it's the father in me .. Now she basically has to go with strangers that some that are with them tried to kill her "wolvie" ....realy??..... I guess y'all let them take your daughter if even after wolvie tried to kill her cause she " might be " dangerous as a father I would've told em the same thing cyc did .. Yet I would've said we can work together but as far as your just gonna walk off with her get real
The stuff that happened in the Ultimates occurred in another universe... Not the 616 one. You can't compare the Ultimates to the Avengers, the two worlds are way too different; the heroes seem weaker while the villains seem stronger.
ReplyDeleteAs for this argument, about this issue, it's getting a tad bit too testy for my tastes, so I think I'll end it with this... We're only two issues in. There's plenty of time for the X-Men to get some victories. If, at the end of this event, the Avengers have defeated the X-Men in every battle, then I'll be the first to question Marvel's strategy and writing. If Mags would have defeated IM I'd have been annoyed, but I'd still give the event a shot. I didn't like the Thing/Namor outcome at all, but I'm not going to let one battle ruin everything for me. At least not two issues in.
Sorry ya feel that way.. As I said early in this thread I am enjoying this friendly debate only got annoying when I address your points respectfully and all my questions are ignored . To say the ultimate universe has no place in this universe how come all the char are still in char as in bad guys are still bad in this universe and good guys still good and I think the guidelines to cap going into other countries is the same in both universes why wouldn't be? Just look at it my way I was willing to chat about all points brought up by all but how many questions have I asked that are ignored kinda rude IMO . Wasn't, mean questions I think I am being the most thoughtful like why don't they work together why not set up camp together why do they have to take her I have stayed neutral I have not been a cheerleader o.o .. I guess if someone talks on this thread that you don't agree with you ignore till someone else says somthing then jumped in with them all the while ignoring reasonable questions that might result in a mutual agreement . If my use of the wft or excessive !!!! I mean no harm in this just after asking the same question over and over with no response it was a means of trying to be noticed more then the last time I asked I only addressed you directly when you made a point that IMO wasn't accurate IE mags never has killed anyone , cap can go to any country ,,, I only gave my points and asked reasonable questions guess n this site only promotes the avengers or marvels point of view ... .......
ReplyDeleteOkay, I'm gonna just come out and say it... If the fact that this blog "promotes the Avengers or Marvel's point of view" how about you do us both a favor and don't bother posting here anymore. Find yourself a blog that "promotes" the X-Men or... I don't know, DC's point of view. I think we'd both be a lot happier that way. And don't bother posting back because I'm not going to be trolled on my own blog. Or, better yet, keep on trolling for attention. I'm happy to get the extra hits. Thanks.
ReplyDeleteWow what did I say to make ya. That mad? I guess my closing about certain pints of views only beng respected maybe? Any way not a troll here if ya want me to not post that's fine , I thin out of everything I said show I am not a troll just wanted to be part of the discussion I evem said sorry when I thought I offended.. Guess that wasn't good enough .. I never cussed I never used words like dumb ,idiot or bad stuff like that,,, I guess this my fault still cause I debated nicely .. I guess I wont be posting here anymore I don't wanna be where I'm not wanted Im sorry if I offended
ReplyDeleteUm......I think people are taking this event a little toooooooo seriously. It's okay to agree to disagree. Everyone has a right to think the way they wish to think and it should be respected. In all honesty, X75 doesn't have all the time he once had to blog considerably for he has a life outside of petty comic blogs and often times sacrifices his energy and sleep as well as lunch breaks apparently just to attend to his blog, so cut the young man some slack. He's very dedicated to what he's started although being so busy, he could just scrap the whole project....but he hasn't. Regardless how any of us respond or what we think should have taken place, the comics are virtually already written and produced awaiting a release date, so.....there's nothing anybody can do about it. Like the next fight with Gambit vs. Captain America: Gambit may be the victor though I see that as impossible of happening. If it does happen, then it happens! I may go all out debating in anger and astonishment, but that don't change a thing. I just debate personally to get a reaction (hopefully positive) and view points of everyone, not just X75 (although at times I do address X to most definitely get his thoughts since it infact is his blog). I believe this is why he stopped beating a dead horse, so that these commentaries would get to personal and deep (combined with his heavy work schedule of it appears 12+ hour work days). Like you Ultimatum, I can't see IM beat Mags (especially if to the death) , but like X75 pointed out....it was a 1-on-1 FIGHT, no death intended. But regardless how I feel along with everybody elses commentary....bottom line....IM triumphs over Mags..the end! At least this storyline. Maybe years later, they may get another rematch for according to X....this is the second time in Marvel history that they have fought. Who knows, the circumstances may be different. So, may I ask the both of you please.....can't we all just get along?!
ReplyDeleteOne more thing, Ultimatum....you can keep blogging on the site. I think you two got on the wrong foot and after its all said and done X will cool off and evrything will be smooth over. It's a strong possiblitiy when he addressed your particular comment that he was tired and/or upset already about something and reacted based on your extreme commentary. To be honest, I don't come to this blog just to get X's comments alone...everybody here comments and makes the blog awesome and some of your comments personally has gave me insight and different perspectives, so don't let this little irritation stop you. I think both of you are bigger than this childish nonsense. Just wanted to let you know that I appreciate you both! A guy can try to help ease the situation, right?! At least give me a brownie for trying!
ReplyDelete"gives Rad a brownie" I agree completely ,, I truly and genuinely ment no offense to anyone I realy never blog about somthing before only reason I knew what a troll was was from WoW. I have no hard feelings to X I'm not that kinda person or someone that likes attention I just like to chat about comics and ideas or whatever I would never hurt or put down someone on purpose I am more of gimme your best debate and lets be above all else friends when I asked him if he had read the ultimate stories I was being serous not smart maybe that did it I dunno ... As for real life I sad above I am a father of 2 . And I'm a day trader with a lovely wife i can understand a hectic day as much as anyone so no worries just hurt a bit cause I felt we went from friends to I'm a troll or trying to get attention and told I was gonna get barred from here " shrugs " I did nt mean to offend anyone that read this blog if I did I apologize for real. Just wanted to get all my points out there and have fun wrestling with other mind set ect ect all in fun though truly and thanks for the kind words rad that was real cool of ya!
ReplyDeleteWell gonna post on uncanny xmen 11 and hope I don't get chewed for my opinion so here goes spoiler alert btw! Well I I have mixed emotions on this one tbh I didn't know colussus could turn into a demon or sorts did I miss somthing? I know he's the juggernaut now but what was that plus even as jugs I was surprised he put such a whooping on the hulk I mean dang it didn't even look like a match kinda cheap the way they ended it I thought though. I mean since he was pounding him so bad couldn't he dragged him off to a safe area or somthing? I kinda liked the hope story in it .. It was hmmm insightful I think shows she more in control then I thought she was from the avx 2 best part I thought was the letter at the end kinda what I had been thinking and posting! Glad to see this point of view addressed in the comic though I think the word fascist shouldve been thrown in cause it is what he's saying in the letter and just would've brought the letter to a focal point all in all as a summery .. Still shocked that the red hulk got soooo badly beaten I mean I tbh thought red hulk could edge him out in a fight for it to be so one sided I still am left shocked only reason I don't complain. About it is i am thinking I must've missed somthing with this demon form in past issues if I haven't well then this fight is just weird I mean to creat a whole new alter ego just for this issue wouldn't be realy fair to the readers IMO cause it has no back drop for us to compare the fight kinda like oh yea he's like this now and this guy can stomp the hulk.. Still can't get over just how overwhelmed the red hulk was I like the red hulk he's done alot of fighting since he's gotten into the scene no way and I mean no way I would've guess this was how it was gonna go though I did like the match up between the two strength on strength and to angry as ya get dudes except maybe ol green skin .. But kinda lame ending to the fight IMO if anyone knows about this demon form please enlighten me on it !
ReplyDeleteHey @Ultimaton I dont think that you are a troll or anything similar to that, you always expresed your points in a kind and respectfull way but maybe the problem here was that you ignored all the times X said that he have no interest in discusing the subject in any way... (kimdly or not)
ReplyDeleteSo now talking about the batle between IM and Magneto i'm on Magneto's side since he could have won this one it the begining when he tossed the 170 ton of metal over IM.. But maybe he was over confident on IM capabilities, and didn't finished the batle in that moment he should have checked that IM was K.O. before he turned his back to I.M.
and cuz I'm new to the Marvel universe dont know how in character Magneto beign overconfident is
Hello alien ! I was trying to just give my points to all not x just like I did above .just looking for like minded ppl and would only refer to X when he seemed to step back in to the subject least that's how I ment it if it came off other then that I apologize truly. Ah the IM vs Mags thing just won't go away lol.. As for mags being arrogant ? Do fish like to swim! Lol . But I don't think this comes down to that IMO I think it comes down to one of my questions. Early on and that is .. Mags is like peanut butter and the xmen are jelly always at it . And been that way for a looooong time.....and in the ultimate universe it is the same way then with the end of ultimatum it took what was left of the marvel universe to defeat him after he moved the earth and killed a bunch of heroes. Which bring me to my question ......could ironman fight all the xmen?.....could ironman fight most of the marvel universe in the ultimate universe? .... I see no way to which he could do that like mags seemed to monthly for over 30 + years! .... If the awnser is no to that question then I personally find it hard to believe ironman would stand a chance beyond a min or two . I think most long term xfans have seen the mags and xmen dance sooooooo much I think they'd agree maybe I'm wrong but with prof X leading the xmen against him one of the best leaders ever and with cyc another great leader and McCoy one of the smartest guys in comics and forge which is IMO the best at making tech strong men colussus and rouge .. Gambit and wolvie two bad mofos then archangel and night crawler! And storm! Mags has fought this collection many many times and assorted other collection of xmen all by himself at some point during each story line .. So again. Asked the same question can IM fight all the men? And at least hold his own? IMO tbh in no disrespect it is a solid "No"......I left out alot of varies xmen in that to cause i know some aren't always with them but mags is usually a major event in xmen story lines so about what said I figured we're there on the big ones but others were to IE jean grey, iceman, ect ect lemme know what ya think Alien=)
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